First we can’t extrapolate Kupp doing what he did last year over a full season when Hawks offense is different, and we hope, much more K9/Charbo friendly. Second, it’s not just DK replaced with Kupp, but also what, hopefully, is a winning pick in 2nd round. Kupp and his reduced cost plus that 52nd player at even less money, ideally means even that much more than what DK provides. Loved most of what DK provided, but we’re ideally getting a better Team.
I ran a mock draft, and traded back with the Ravens for a nice third round pick, I think, and when it came my turn to draft, I looked for K. Grant and he was gone. So I looked to see where Grant went, and dang if it wasn't the Ravens who took Grant at 18! So, I mean, you can try to trade back a few spots, but it is probably a mistake if Grant is your guy, and Grant IS my guy, so now I just take him and start the run on DT's.
You can’t put a price on what others will learn just being around Cooper! Great acquisition by the Hawks! Love to see local Washington State kids get an opportunity to be part of this organization.
Kupp's greatest value may show itself in the stats of JSN and other receivers. The man will make that room better. And, as long as he's healthy, he'll get his. If we get his last productive years, I think he'd make a great coach. Maybe Coach MacDonald keeps him around if he's interested.
I have no problem with having multiple slot receivers unless they are all incapable of getting off the line against press coverage. They have to have great feet or speed or size or strength to get off the line clean against press coverage. Especially against larger CB's, which we sort of started that trend.
But a guy like Higgens might improve our team more than a guy like Noel, from the same team.
I'm really looking forward to replacing DK with someone with better hands and body control. Contested catches and such. Higgens seems to have all of that. Not quite as fast, though.
To your point, I keep hearing people avoid drafting a slot receiver because we already have JSN and now Kupp....but what if we draft a slot that can learn from and be mentored by Kupp and JSN. Let them get comfortable and if Kupp goes down for a bit they can step in and when Kupp calls it a day the new slot is ready to roll.
There's also the idea of bunch and combo slot formations that SJ mentioned before. All 3 WRs in a bunch are technically operating from a slot position. These are formations K² likes to call, too.
Born in Oklahoma, moved to Yakima Washington when I was one year old. Saw my first football game at the U-Dub when I was 12. Saw my first pro game about 2 years later in Portland, OR. at Multnomah stadium (between the Rams and 49ers, I think) and it was billed as an exibition game. Became a Rams fan after that until the Cowboys declared themselves as America's team. Always hated, but respected the Niners because of Jerry Rice, Dwight Clark and Joe Montana. After i was discharged from the Air Force, I became a Vancouver Firefighter. One of the firefighters on my shift purchased a pair of season Tickets when the Seahawks fielded their first team. He took me to one of the games in the old Kingdome. I have been a fan ever since even though they were less than good. My favorite players were, in those early days, Jim Zorn and Steve Largent. Later they became No-E, Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor and Beast Mode. Never thought too much about defense until I watched Kam Chancellor, Sherm and Earl Thomas. Now I'm a big defense fanatic and that is the reason that I am so excited about Mike MacDonalds hiring. BTW, I've been married twice. My first wife, who loved all things sports died of a heart attack in 1998. My second wife, who I met on a cruise in the Mediterranean, died of the Corona virus in 2020. I was her third husband. All three of us were born in Oklahoma and she was always ragging on Okies. She didn't like football so I had to build a man cave in my garage so I could watch the Seahawks.
Comparing Metcalf to Kupp is like comparing cops to firemen. They're both public servants but they have different jobs. DK is a deep threat wide out and Kupp is a chain moving slot reciever. The valid comparison will be DK vs. our next deep threat WR. who ever that will be.
A new TE who doesn't avoid contact and likes running over DBs would help the cause!
It is interesting to compare them. Their jobs are still the same, their roles are different. Both are supposed to catch the ball and make something happen. More specifically, the comparison as player profiles couldn’t be much different. Though they were both drafted roughly in the same spot, Kupp was amazing in college, one of the best to ever do it, but teams worried he didn’t have the athleticism. DK struggled in college, but his athleticism is off the charts.
Kupp has had a great career, but most expect him to be downgraded to merely good.
DK has had a good career and the Steelers are betting that he will become great.
If I could only choose one of them, I would choose Kupp 10 times out of 10. Regardless if his role is different than DK’s.
I hope Kupp adopts some of Tyler Lockett's play style in that he protects himself and avoids (excess) contact. I see Kupp dropping his head and initiating contact way to much, at this point just get the yards and live to see another day (unless it's go time).
I'm almost 80, I grew up in Seattle, and way back in the day, Johnny Unitas was my favorite player, and the Colts were my favorite team. They moved to Indy 40 years ago, and I've never forgiven the franchise - time to find a new team. I like red and gold, and Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Dwight Clark, and Roger Craig were pretty hard to cheer against, so the 49ers it was. Never felt comfortable with the Rams and always offended by the Raiders. I wanted to like the Seahawks from the beginning in '76, but hated the Dallas look-alike uniforms. In time, I got over the uniform thing and got behind our local team. Sometime in the last 30 years, I began to understand this only entertainment, and I can enjoy the games without becoming overly emotionally involved. I only have enough time and energy to be invested in one team, and thanks largely to SSJ, the Seahawks are it. Go 'Hawks!
Reading all of your Comments made me buy a lot of new Seahawks Cloths.
I still can't get myself over the prices of the jerseys and my only one will still be a No '76' but They have up to 70% discount in Europe for everything else if Anybody wants to get some new fresh stuff :)
The other more difficult stat is clutch catches — like catches to move the chains. My impression is Kupp has more of those than DK but maybe it’s just my imagination. Do they keep that stat?
According to ESPN Stats Cooper had 28 First downs DK 35 but it has way more to do with DK's Routes being so deep. He just doesn't make catches at the LOS.
Coincidence of note: DK and Kupp were both targeted 29 times on 3rd down last season and they both caught 16 of those passes.
Unfortunately for Kupp, he only had 140 yards and 7 first downs on those plays, compared to 251 yards and 11 first downs for DK.
I would have to look up each play because sometimes a player can have just one or two plays that inflate the numbers (especially a guy like DK, who we know has had a few big plays in his career) but generally DK came away with more production last season.
However, Kupp's numbers weren't lagging behind much on first and second down splits.
Another interesting split is on downs of 10+ yards to go:
Anything to help us improve in the red zone would be worth it. We had so many sad trips into the red last year between the turnovers and lack of production.
I think he will be the darling of Seahawks fans because of his NW ties. I had always rooted for Coop but not the Rams. Great for our local fans to cheer him on each game this year!
I have a feeling Kupp will not go down in the Jerry Rice, Franco Harris, Edgerrin James “hall of fame end of career Seahawks stint” category. I think he will still be very good, at least for one year.
Kupp’s ceiling is Joe Jurevicius. Helpful, useful, but no one’s idea of an impact player. At end of the day, Seattle has replaced an impact player with a guy who may fall off a cliff.
I’m not sure DK has been much of an impact player for a while now. More often than not the impact has been negative with penalties and fumbles. Ken’s stats comparison here makes it plain. I think we’ve all really wanted DK to be amazing because he looks amazing and runs amazingly fast, but he would’ve turned a corner by now if he was ever going to be what we dreamed.
I understand your doubts. But, working with your comparison: Joe Jurevicious had 55 rec for 659 yds and 10 TDs in his 1yr with Seattle. I think we'd take those numbers.
Being an impact player is well within the range of outcomes for him. We saw his ceiling as one of the 2 best years for a receiver in NFL history. Is it reasonable to expect that again? No. But, his contributions can certainly be higher than Jurevicious' career ceiling year that he hit during that Super Bowl run with us.
Yes—Jurevicius was absolutely essential to that Super Bowl team. Most forget that Darrell Jackson and suffered injury during the season and Joe kept things going.
DJ Hackett caught only 28 passes, but it seemed at the time that half of them were key. Hasselbeck didn’t mind going going to DJ in a tight spot, for sure.
First we can’t extrapolate Kupp doing what he did last year over a full season when Hawks offense is different, and we hope, much more K9/Charbo friendly. Second, it’s not just DK replaced with Kupp, but also what, hopefully, is a winning pick in 2nd round. Kupp and his reduced cost plus that 52nd player at even less money, ideally means even that much more than what DK provides. Loved most of what DK provided, but we’re ideally getting a better Team.
I ran a mock draft, and traded back with the Ravens for a nice third round pick, I think, and when it came my turn to draft, I looked for K. Grant and he was gone. So I looked to see where Grant went, and dang if it wasn't the Ravens who took Grant at 18! So, I mean, you can try to trade back a few spots, but it is probably a mistake if Grant is your guy, and Grant IS my guy, so now I just take him and start the run on DT's.
You can’t put a price on what others will learn just being around Cooper! Great acquisition by the Hawks! Love to see local Washington State kids get an opportunity to be part of this organization.
Kupp's greatest value may show itself in the stats of JSN and other receivers. The man will make that room better. And, as long as he's healthy, he'll get his. If we get his last productive years, I think he'd make a great coach. Maybe Coach MacDonald keeps him around if he's interested.
I have no problem with having multiple slot receivers unless they are all incapable of getting off the line against press coverage. They have to have great feet or speed or size or strength to get off the line clean against press coverage. Especially against larger CB's, which we sort of started that trend.
But a guy like Higgens might improve our team more than a guy like Noel, from the same team.
I'm really looking forward to replacing DK with someone with better hands and body control. Contested catches and such. Higgens seems to have all of that. Not quite as fast, though.
To your point, I keep hearing people avoid drafting a slot receiver because we already have JSN and now Kupp....but what if we draft a slot that can learn from and be mentored by Kupp and JSN. Let them get comfortable and if Kupp goes down for a bit they can step in and when Kupp calls it a day the new slot is ready to roll.
There's also the idea of bunch and combo slot formations that SJ mentioned before. All 3 WRs in a bunch are technically operating from a slot position. These are formations K² likes to call, too.
Born in Oklahoma, moved to Yakima Washington when I was one year old. Saw my first football game at the U-Dub when I was 12. Saw my first pro game about 2 years later in Portland, OR. at Multnomah stadium (between the Rams and 49ers, I think) and it was billed as an exibition game. Became a Rams fan after that until the Cowboys declared themselves as America's team. Always hated, but respected the Niners because of Jerry Rice, Dwight Clark and Joe Montana. After i was discharged from the Air Force, I became a Vancouver Firefighter. One of the firefighters on my shift purchased a pair of season Tickets when the Seahawks fielded their first team. He took me to one of the games in the old Kingdome. I have been a fan ever since even though they were less than good. My favorite players were, in those early days, Jim Zorn and Steve Largent. Later they became No-E, Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor and Beast Mode. Never thought too much about defense until I watched Kam Chancellor, Sherm and Earl Thomas. Now I'm a big defense fanatic and that is the reason that I am so excited about Mike MacDonalds hiring. BTW, I've been married twice. My first wife, who loved all things sports died of a heart attack in 1998. My second wife, who I met on a cruise in the Mediterranean, died of the Corona virus in 2020. I was her third husband. All three of us were born in Oklahoma and she was always ragging on Okies. She didn't like football so I had to build a man cave in my garage so I could watch the Seahawks.
Sorry for your loss(es). What a tough hand to be dealt.
Comparing Metcalf to Kupp is like comparing cops to firemen. They're both public servants but they have different jobs. DK is a deep threat wide out and Kupp is a chain moving slot reciever. The valid comparison will be DK vs. our next deep threat WR. who ever that will be.
A new TE who doesn't avoid contact and likes running over DBs would help the cause!
It is interesting to compare them. Their jobs are still the same, their roles are different. Both are supposed to catch the ball and make something happen. More specifically, the comparison as player profiles couldn’t be much different. Though they were both drafted roughly in the same spot, Kupp was amazing in college, one of the best to ever do it, but teams worried he didn’t have the athleticism. DK struggled in college, but his athleticism is off the charts.
Kupp has had a great career, but most expect him to be downgraded to merely good.
DK has had a good career and the Steelers are betting that he will become great.
If I could only choose one of them, I would choose Kupp 10 times out of 10. Regardless if his role is different than DK’s.
I hope Kupp adopts some of Tyler Lockett's play style in that he protects himself and avoids (excess) contact. I see Kupp dropping his head and initiating contact way to much, at this point just get the yards and live to see another day (unless it's go time).
I'm almost 80, I grew up in Seattle, and way back in the day, Johnny Unitas was my favorite player, and the Colts were my favorite team. They moved to Indy 40 years ago, and I've never forgiven the franchise - time to find a new team. I like red and gold, and Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Dwight Clark, and Roger Craig were pretty hard to cheer against, so the 49ers it was. Never felt comfortable with the Rams and always offended by the Raiders. I wanted to like the Seahawks from the beginning in '76, but hated the Dallas look-alike uniforms. In time, I got over the uniform thing and got behind our local team. Sometime in the last 30 years, I began to understand this only entertainment, and I can enjoy the games without becoming overly emotionally involved. I only have enough time and energy to be invested in one team, and thanks largely to SSJ, the Seahawks are it. Go 'Hawks!
Unitas was my first NFL favorite player even though I lived on the West coast.
Reading all of your Comments made me buy a lot of new Seahawks Cloths.
I still can't get myself over the prices of the jerseys and my only one will still be a No '76' but They have up to 70% discount in Europe for everything else if Anybody wants to get some new fresh stuff :)
Anyways... GO HAWKS
There's some nice pieces down to very reasonable prices here! Thanks for pointing it out :)
You're welcome
I'd take 50% off of a "12 Fan" jersey right now!
Yes sir
“Steve Largent’s sister.”.Lol
May the 12s be with you and Go Seahawks!
The other more difficult stat is clutch catches — like catches to move the chains. My impression is Kupp has more of those than DK but maybe it’s just my imagination. Do they keep that stat?
According to ESPN Stats Cooper had 28 First downs DK 35 but it has way more to do with DK's Routes being so deep. He just doesn't make catches at the LOS.
Coincidence of note: DK and Kupp were both targeted 29 times on 3rd down last season and they both caught 16 of those passes.
Unfortunately for Kupp, he only had 140 yards and 7 first downs on those plays, compared to 251 yards and 11 first downs for DK.
I would have to look up each play because sometimes a player can have just one or two plays that inflate the numbers (especially a guy like DK, who we know has had a few big plays in his career) but generally DK came away with more production last season.
However, Kupp's numbers weren't lagging behind much on first and second down splits.
Another interesting split is on downs of 10+ yards to go:
DK: 68 targets, 41 catches, 584 yards, 2 TD, 60% catch rate
Kupp: 58 targets, 44 catches, 421 yards, 1 TD, 76% catch rate
So Kupp can still be an adequate target downfield.
Both players didn't do much in the red zone, but Kupp scored:
DK in the red zone: 2 catches for 11 yards, 0 TD
Kupp in the red zone: 6 catches for 41 yards, 4 TD
Anything to help us improve in the red zone would be worth it. We had so many sad trips into the red last year between the turnovers and lack of production.
Good question double-Z. I’ll dig deeper.
Thanks for checking it out, guess my perception wasn’t as evident in the actual data. Which is the whole point of Seaside Joe, just the facts ma’am!
I think he will be the darling of Seahawks fans because of his NW ties. I had always rooted for Coop but not the Rams. Great for our local fans to cheer him on each game this year!
I think Seahawks-Rams Week 1 in Seattle could be a great way to start the year.
I have a feeling Kupp will not go down in the Jerry Rice, Franco Harris, Edgerrin James “hall of fame end of career Seahawks stint” category. I think he will still be very good, at least for one year.
Kupp’s ceiling is Joe Jurevicius. Helpful, useful, but no one’s idea of an impact player. At end of the day, Seattle has replaced an impact player with a guy who may fall off a cliff.
I’m not sure DK has been much of an impact player for a while now. More often than not the impact has been negative with penalties and fumbles. Ken’s stats comparison here makes it plain. I think we’ve all really wanted DK to be amazing because he looks amazing and runs amazingly fast, but he would’ve turned a corner by now if he was ever going to be what we dreamed.
Metcalf was the best offensive player on the team in 2023. His pre- and post-injury numbers last year are night and day.
I understand your doubts. But, working with your comparison: Joe Jurevicious had 55 rec for 659 yds and 10 TDs in his 1yr with Seattle. I think we'd take those numbers.
Being an impact player is well within the range of outcomes for him. We saw his ceiling as one of the 2 best years for a receiver in NFL history. Is it reasonable to expect that again? No. But, his contributions can certainly be higher than Jurevicious' career ceiling year that he hit during that Super Bowl run with us.
Yes—Jurevicius was absolutely essential to that Super Bowl team. Most forget that Darrell Jackson and suffered injury during the season and Joe kept things going.
DJ Hackett caught only 28 passes, but it seemed at the time that half of them were key. Hasselbeck didn’t mind going going to DJ in a tight spot, for sure.
You may be pleasantly surprised.
I’d hope that I am!
Totally agree. A mostly PR signing that could, maybe, sort of, kind of, a little bit work out.