After about the end of the first Quarter Sataoa seemed to be settling in. Considering he has never ever played in the NFL and I'm sure has gotten fewer reps (until this last week) and probably less coaching, by the end of the game he was doing pretty well for a first start! We shall see how he does moving forward, But it looks promising ,as I have been saying since preseason!
If the Seahawks had a middling O-line , say number 12th to 15th ranked - Just think about what the O would be doing right now. Having a semblance of consistency in the run game would Hugely transform this O. Depending on who they desire to hang onto on O moving forward ,again IF the O-line was number 12 ( or hopefully even better) They would be a decent team right now. So JS lets do it!
Well, that is an interesting take, but alternatively, they may see Geno as young ish, and on a still improving as a QB with better than Goff potential. Though, I agree with your take that Geno is essentially, Goff, but as we can see, with a good OL Goff is performing miracles, more or less. Detroit is a good team to emulate. What's not to like? And I think we might play a very competitive game with Detroit if we should be so lucky as to get that far in the playoffs.
I'm not saying we are on the same level as Detroit, but at the end of the season, we can throw out all of the first half of the season's stats and just look at the last 8 games or so and then see who ranks where. I'd bet we will continue to play good defense and mid level offense. If the addition of Lucas and Haynes can develop into their best selves, we might have an OK OL. Then Geno will be more effective, and anything is possible in the playoffs.
We still haven't even assured ourselves a spot in the playoffs and that is still a tall order. If we miss the playoffs, that won't change my opinion of this team's potential WITH Geno.
JS says he always looks for QB's and if he pulls the trigger, I am all in, but likely Geno will still be the starter for a while.
I’d settle Plumlee becoming our Taysom Hill. A Swiss army knife to use as a change of pace in key situations. He can run, pass, block or receive. Not necessarily elite at any, but capable enough to sow just enough confusion in the opposing defense to make a difference in a crucial situation.
JRPlumlee, can be exciting, but probably brought in to mimic Murrey on the p-squad. But I have liked him since before the last draft. That would be fun to see what he can do!
I disagree. I don't think we need a QB, or even a WR.
Sam Howell was clearly brought in as a young developmental prospect. He's started only *1 season*. He's *only 24*. I do really think John Schneider likes where they're at in the QB position where when Geno's contract gets too expensive or if his play declines (which i don't think it will) they can just turn to Sam Howell as their QB of the future. WR on the other hand, while I think DK at close-to-top-of-the-market money is not good value, I think he means so much to the offense that they will do it. With JSN and DK, they are set at WR aside from maybe a couple cheap flyers on either veteran FAs or young late-round draft picks.
According to PFF, this draft is more defensive-focused, with a great DT/CB/S/TE classes and a good OT/DE/RB/WR class (though every year seems to be good at WR and RB recently...)
What my ideal draft would be:
1st round: OT/DE/DT depending on Abe Lucas's play and health for the rest of the season. If he looks good, I'd love another great DT or DE so we can have a truly fearsome D-line with great starters and great depth.
2nd round: IOL if any of the prospects are worth it. Otherwise, maybe a Safety to shore up that weakness in our defense.
3rd round: whichever we haven't picked of IOL/S. A young WR would also be good value at this point, but probably not earlier.
This is great talk, but how come no one is mentioning a young QB already in the fold, the ‘Swiss army knife’ John Rhys Plumlee? I was hopeful that the hawks would get him as a UDFA but of course, it was Pitts that got him first. Have you taken a look at his highlight reel? He can throw, and he definitely has the wheels. Maybe he’s the young QB that sits and learns, or perhaps he could play his way onto the team as Russell did?
I'll be going easy on Grubb until we give him a set group of guys to dance with. With the Abe and Olu additions, I think the time has arrived. My bet is MM tries out Sautoa over Haynes on Sunday, as the Division Title is on the line next week in Az. I suspect full contact practises with our own Defense, as all focus now moves to getting our offensive line up to speed. The Jets do have a very tough group of guys to test them off a short week. I'm reading that Budda Baker mostly knew what we were running last week. That can't continue.
I can't believe you didn't include a stud Guard in your want list.
Geno is not a SB quality QB. so stacking QBs can't hurt. No way they are going to extend Geno since he's signed through 25.
The 25 QB class is low on talent so they may try to get a young QB that needs better coaching and a better team to revive his career. That could be our very own Sam Howard.
If a QB they like doesn't fall to them in the draft they should look at interior O line. rush DE. an upgrade at TE in no particular order.
Lastly, what would it take to pry Penix loose from Atlanta?
Nicholas SJ has covered this for well over a year. Based on research and JS comments, IOL is not a high priority. You will see SJ did say OC. But JS doesn’t look at IOL early in draft. Not sure I agree is I think Laken is one of worst out there. But see comments this week. Staff may very well be liking a brand new young OG. And N Dakota St Sunil was in this last game as extra blocker multiple times. I’m guessing coaches are liking the growth of these undrafted linemen.
I’m thinking even more than weapons (including a QB), you hit the nail on the head when you listed this Top 5 Offense list, and their strong OL’s:
- how many yards/game would Walker be getting if his first contact were 2 yds past the line of scrimmage? Just 2….
- how many yds would DK/JSN/Bobo/Barner and whoever takes over for Lockett (although I think he accepts a new last renegotiation) and Fant (bye bye) get, if Geno not only has another 0.5 secs but the pressure isn’t coming right at him in the middle? Esp if now teams had to blitz more bc he’s picking them apart with just the 4-man rush
- and Sam Howell, to second Jimmy Johnson’s post, is there anyone in the 2025 class that’s materially more intriguing?
I’m with you on the strategy of finding a QB with potential and then sitting him, just am worried that guy isn’t playing in college this year.
And I’m not sure it’s about the draft either — maybe we should just sign two proven rugged guards next season (Zack Martin and Trey Smith for example?). Haynes and Bradford can be capable bench, and also learn. Olu should continue to grow having such talent on either side of him taking care of business. And we have (in theory) George Fant and a couple promising guys to back up Lucas if he goes down again (but we’re only a few games from the end of the season, and then Lucas gets a full offseason to care for that knee).
Maybe it costs $40m to land those two. Which you’ve shown we’ll have, without too much problem. So let’s do it!!!
Just quick note you will not get another .5 even from the greatest line ever. 3 seconds isn’t there. Williams, who isn’t fast, had .82 movement in AZ game. DLine player quickness/twitch is just incredible. Avg is 2.4/2.5. I would say another .3 but not .5. But agreed and have been saying it for a long time. You need all 5 in sync and only happens when all play together. I’m hopeful that what JS has been doing is accumulating young and getting filled until those young can all play as one group.
"Former Pro-Bowl LB Shaq Barrett, who announced his retirement from the NFL in July, has applied to be reinstated to play immediately, per his agents Drew Rosenhaus and Robert Bailey. Barrett is coming out of retirement. The Dolphins currently hold Barrett’s contractual rights."
Worth a 7th for an edge if they are willing to part?
I like Quinn Ewers quite a lot. His draft stock has fallen off because of his injury though and there is speculation he may enter the portal and play another year instead of entering the draft for 25. If he does enter the draft, he might be available for the Seahawks and it would be great to bring him to the NFCW.
At some point we need to see what Howell brings to the Dance. See if the Guys take to him. See if the 12s will abide him. See what his young wheels might bring. The man seems to have some aggressive Baker Mayfield in him. We need to find out and put these speculations to rest. If Geno delivers a blow-out, we could get this late in the game Sunday. He'll be back in the place that broke his jaw, away from all the "You Suck!" naysayers back here. Indeed, a quiet stadium will be music to his ears, as will any loud hate mail. Empty the place out. Write them back, Buddy!
stacking qbs is an easy statement, like saving for rainy days.
but reality is much tougher when you need to forego lifesaving medications in order to save.
point being that I would not rather have a qb prospect on the bench, than Byron Murphy in the middle of our d-line right now, even if it had been possible.
At our core, most of us recognize Geno as an accurate and capable QB when he has time, but a horrible panic-er under pressure.
We also know that it's near impossible to win the Superbowl without an offense that can handle heavy pressure.
Ergo Geno is not capable of winning the biggest game without making the biggest mistake(s).
But replacing Geno with someone who doesn't panic into the big mistake (e.g., throws it away rather than a pick-6) doesn't necessarily mean using a high draft pick.
There's free agents and developmental players, too.
I'd love to see a breakdown of both current and retired successful QBs and if/where they were drafted to get better clarity on how hard it is to develop a late- round qb.
I like where your heads at. Assuming successful QB's win SB's....Only problem is you have an outlier in the data. When you have one player drafted very late that has so many SB rings, it's going to make the data look like late-drafted QB's can be molded into champions. Really, it's just Tom freaggin' Brady. Remove that one set of points and then recalculate to get a better idea maybe??
This will be Week 3 for Olu and Abe to have learned more dance steps. I expect we will be well pleased. I think young Haynes may now be certain he needs to increase his strength training and we'll see his backup show what he's got. If we can get a solid lineup on our O-Line, Grubb can begin using more complicated schemes other than the basic sets he's been forced to use.
The question about the offense has been on my mind lately.
In 2023 the Seahawks finished 10th in EPA/play. They brought back largely the same offensive team with the exception of a new offensive coordinator. The line was equally as bad last year. The offensive coordinator who led them to a top 10 offense, has already been fired at his new job.
So why have they gone from the 10th best to 18th best?
Here is a more specific timeline of events:
2023 Week 13-18: 3rd best in EPA/play
Offense remains the same new OC
2024 Weeks 1-4: 11th best EPA/play
2024 Weeks 5-8: 21st best EPA/play
2024 Week 9 on: 28th best EPA/play
This may look like this is a Grubb fault. And hard to argue against that.
But, I have been watching a bunch of Mike Mac interviews, and I think it is a little deeper. Ironically, after firing Pete Carroll, Mike Mac appears to have made a significant investment into the run game. And like most investments, they typically loose money at first but have long term gains.
I think that this is what is happening with the offense. Mike Mac has stepped in and said, I know that the run game is bad and it is inefficient, but the only way to get better at something is to keep trying it. So Grubb, you have to run the football even tho it inefficient.
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but just watching the games it seems like they have ran the ball more and more as the season has gone on, which has possibly led in part to a less efficient offense.
Will the investment payoff? I think it will!
Mike Mac has also talked about how close they are in the run game. I just got done rewatching the Cardinals game and I can see what he is saying. Just like the defense gelling, the offensive line needs to gel and keep their run fits because one mistake can cost them the entire play. They have to work in unison.
This was just on my mind ... Hopefully it is interesting to all.
After about the end of the first Quarter Sataoa seemed to be settling in. Considering he has never ever played in the NFL and I'm sure has gotten fewer reps (until this last week) and probably less coaching, by the end of the game he was doing pretty well for a first start! We shall see how he does moving forward, But it looks promising ,as I have been saying since preseason!
If the Seahawks had a middling O-line , say number 12th to 15th ranked - Just think about what the O would be doing right now. Having a semblance of consistency in the run game would Hugely transform this O. Depending on who they desire to hang onto on O moving forward ,again IF the O-line was number 12 ( or hopefully even better) They would be a decent team right now. So JS lets do it!
Why don’t you explain EPA at the beginning of an article like this?
Well, that is an interesting take, but alternatively, they may see Geno as young ish, and on a still improving as a QB with better than Goff potential. Though, I agree with your take that Geno is essentially, Goff, but as we can see, with a good OL Goff is performing miracles, more or less. Detroit is a good team to emulate. What's not to like? And I think we might play a very competitive game with Detroit if we should be so lucky as to get that far in the playoffs.
I'm not saying we are on the same level as Detroit, but at the end of the season, we can throw out all of the first half of the season's stats and just look at the last 8 games or so and then see who ranks where. I'd bet we will continue to play good defense and mid level offense. If the addition of Lucas and Haynes can develop into their best selves, we might have an OK OL. Then Geno will be more effective, and anything is possible in the playoffs.
We still haven't even assured ourselves a spot in the playoffs and that is still a tall order. If we miss the playoffs, that won't change my opinion of this team's potential WITH Geno.
JS says he always looks for QB's and if he pulls the trigger, I am all in, but likely Geno will still be the starter for a while.
I’d settle Plumlee becoming our Taysom Hill. A Swiss army knife to use as a change of pace in key situations. He can run, pass, block or receive. Not necessarily elite at any, but capable enough to sow just enough confusion in the opposing defense to make a difference in a crucial situation.
JRPlumlee, can be exciting, but probably brought in to mimic Murrey on the p-squad. But I have liked him since before the last draft. That would be fun to see what he can do!
I disagree. I don't think we need a QB, or even a WR.
Sam Howell was clearly brought in as a young developmental prospect. He's started only *1 season*. He's *only 24*. I do really think John Schneider likes where they're at in the QB position where when Geno's contract gets too expensive or if his play declines (which i don't think it will) they can just turn to Sam Howell as their QB of the future. WR on the other hand, while I think DK at close-to-top-of-the-market money is not good value, I think he means so much to the offense that they will do it. With JSN and DK, they are set at WR aside from maybe a couple cheap flyers on either veteran FAs or young late-round draft picks.
According to PFF, this draft is more defensive-focused, with a great DT/CB/S/TE classes and a good OT/DE/RB/WR class (though every year seems to be good at WR and RB recently...)
What my ideal draft would be:
1st round: OT/DE/DT depending on Abe Lucas's play and health for the rest of the season. If he looks good, I'd love another great DT or DE so we can have a truly fearsome D-line with great starters and great depth.
2nd round: IOL if any of the prospects are worth it. Otherwise, maybe a Safety to shore up that weakness in our defense.
3rd round: whichever we haven't picked of IOL/S. A young WR would also be good value at this point, but probably not earlier.
This is great talk, but how come no one is mentioning a young QB already in the fold, the ‘Swiss army knife’ John Rhys Plumlee? I was hopeful that the hawks would get him as a UDFA but of course, it was Pitts that got him first. Have you taken a look at his highlight reel? He can throw, and he definitely has the wheels. Maybe he’s the young QB that sits and learns, or perhaps he could play his way onto the team as Russell did?
I'll be going easy on Grubb until we give him a set group of guys to dance with. With the Abe and Olu additions, I think the time has arrived. My bet is MM tries out Sautoa over Haynes on Sunday, as the Division Title is on the line next week in Az. I suspect full contact practises with our own Defense, as all focus now moves to getting our offensive line up to speed. The Jets do have a very tough group of guys to test them off a short week. I'm reading that Budda Baker mostly knew what we were running last week. That can't continue.
This point in the season teams are alllowed very little full contact practice.
I can't believe you didn't include a stud Guard in your want list.
Geno is not a SB quality QB. so stacking QBs can't hurt. No way they are going to extend Geno since he's signed through 25.
The 25 QB class is low on talent so they may try to get a young QB that needs better coaching and a better team to revive his career. That could be our very own Sam Howard.
If a QB they like doesn't fall to them in the draft they should look at interior O line. rush DE. an upgrade at TE in no particular order.
Lastly, what would it take to pry Penix loose from Atlanta?
Nicholas SJ has covered this for well over a year. Based on research and JS comments, IOL is not a high priority. You will see SJ did say OC. But JS doesn’t look at IOL early in draft. Not sure I agree is I think Laken is one of worst out there. But see comments this week. Staff may very well be liking a brand new young OG. And N Dakota St Sunil was in this last game as extra blocker multiple times. I’m guessing coaches are liking the growth of these undrafted linemen.
I’m thinking even more than weapons (including a QB), you hit the nail on the head when you listed this Top 5 Offense list, and their strong OL’s:
- how many yards/game would Walker be getting if his first contact were 2 yds past the line of scrimmage? Just 2….
- how many yds would DK/JSN/Bobo/Barner and whoever takes over for Lockett (although I think he accepts a new last renegotiation) and Fant (bye bye) get, if Geno not only has another 0.5 secs but the pressure isn’t coming right at him in the middle? Esp if now teams had to blitz more bc he’s picking them apart with just the 4-man rush
- and Sam Howell, to second Jimmy Johnson’s post, is there anyone in the 2025 class that’s materially more intriguing?
I’m with you on the strategy of finding a QB with potential and then sitting him, just am worried that guy isn’t playing in college this year.
And I’m not sure it’s about the draft either — maybe we should just sign two proven rugged guards next season (Zack Martin and Trey Smith for example?). Haynes and Bradford can be capable bench, and also learn. Olu should continue to grow having such talent on either side of him taking care of business. And we have (in theory) George Fant and a couple promising guys to back up Lucas if he goes down again (but we’re only a few games from the end of the season, and then Lucas gets a full offseason to care for that knee).
Maybe it costs $40m to land those two. Which you’ve shown we’ll have, without too much problem. So let’s do it!!!
Just quick note you will not get another .5 even from the greatest line ever. 3 seconds isn’t there. Williams, who isn’t fast, had .82 movement in AZ game. DLine player quickness/twitch is just incredible. Avg is 2.4/2.5. I would say another .3 but not .5. But agreed and have been saying it for a long time. You need all 5 in sync and only happens when all play together. I’m hopeful that what JS has been doing is accumulating young and getting filled until those young can all play as one group.
Off-topic here, but.....
"Former Pro-Bowl LB Shaq Barrett, who announced his retirement from the NFL in July, has applied to be reinstated to play immediately, per his agents Drew Rosenhaus and Robert Bailey. Barrett is coming out of retirement. The Dolphins currently hold Barrett’s contractual rights."
Worth a 7th for an edge if they are willing to part?
I wonder if John Schneider is A) still smitten with Quinn Ewers B) willing to do what it takes to go up to grab him if he is.
I like Quinn Ewers quite a lot. His draft stock has fallen off because of his injury though and there is speculation he may enter the portal and play another year instead of entering the draft for 25. If he does enter the draft, he might be available for the Seahawks and it would be great to bring him to the NFCW.
At some point we need to see what Howell brings to the Dance. See if the Guys take to him. See if the 12s will abide him. See what his young wheels might bring. The man seems to have some aggressive Baker Mayfield in him. We need to find out and put these speculations to rest. If Geno delivers a blow-out, we could get this late in the game Sunday. He'll be back in the place that broke his jaw, away from all the "You Suck!" naysayers back here. Indeed, a quiet stadium will be music to his ears, as will any loud hate mail. Empty the place out. Write them back, Buddy!
stacking qbs is an easy statement, like saving for rainy days.
but reality is much tougher when you need to forego lifesaving medications in order to save.
point being that I would not rather have a qb prospect on the bench, than Byron Murphy in the middle of our d-line right now, even if it had been possible.
At our core, most of us recognize Geno as an accurate and capable QB when he has time, but a horrible panic-er under pressure.
We also know that it's near impossible to win the Superbowl without an offense that can handle heavy pressure.
Ergo Geno is not capable of winning the biggest game without making the biggest mistake(s).
But replacing Geno with someone who doesn't panic into the big mistake (e.g., throws it away rather than a pick-6) doesn't necessarily mean using a high draft pick.
There's free agents and developmental players, too.
I'd love to see a breakdown of both current and retired successful QBs and if/where they were drafted to get better clarity on how hard it is to develop a late- round qb.
I like where your heads at. Assuming successful QB's win SB's....Only problem is you have an outlier in the data. When you have one player drafted very late that has so many SB rings, it's going to make the data look like late-drafted QB's can be molded into champions. Really, it's just Tom freaggin' Brady. Remove that one set of points and then recalculate to get a better idea maybe??
This will be Week 3 for Olu and Abe to have learned more dance steps. I expect we will be well pleased. I think young Haynes may now be certain he needs to increase his strength training and we'll see his backup show what he's got. If we can get a solid lineup on our O-Line, Grubb can begin using more complicated schemes other than the basic sets he's been forced to use.
The question about the offense has been on my mind lately.
In 2023 the Seahawks finished 10th in EPA/play. They brought back largely the same offensive team with the exception of a new offensive coordinator. The line was equally as bad last year. The offensive coordinator who led them to a top 10 offense, has already been fired at his new job.
So why have they gone from the 10th best to 18th best?
Here is a more specific timeline of events:
2023 Week 13-18: 3rd best in EPA/play
Offense remains the same new OC
2024 Weeks 1-4: 11th best EPA/play
2024 Weeks 5-8: 21st best EPA/play
2024 Week 9 on: 28th best EPA/play
This may look like this is a Grubb fault. And hard to argue against that.
But, I have been watching a bunch of Mike Mac interviews, and I think it is a little deeper. Ironically, after firing Pete Carroll, Mike Mac appears to have made a significant investment into the run game. And like most investments, they typically loose money at first but have long term gains.
I think that this is what is happening with the offense. Mike Mac has stepped in and said, I know that the run game is bad and it is inefficient, but the only way to get better at something is to keep trying it. So Grubb, you have to run the football even tho it inefficient.
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but just watching the games it seems like they have ran the ball more and more as the season has gone on, which has possibly led in part to a less efficient offense.
Will the investment payoff? I think it will!
Mike Mac has also talked about how close they are in the run game. I just got done rewatching the Cardinals game and I can see what he is saying. Just like the defense gelling, the offensive line needs to gel and keep their run fits because one mistake can cost them the entire play. They have to work in unison.
This was just on my mind ... Hopefully it is interesting to all.
Go Hawks.