My example will be dating me but it came to mind, Jim Plunket a winner of two Super Bowls.
On a personal note I got away from a very negative coaching staff in rugby and thrived. I actually won team MVP for the season, after going on a 7 game tour of England, Scotland and Ireland. I too have had a boss like you, that made me change my job I had been happy with for eight years.
I have not seen Drew play enough football to say he will be great, but he could be good. Chris Simm's says if he were in this draft he would be the number one quarterback. The two things the Hawks like about him is the deep ball and his running.
If Drew Lock can become a good quarterback using Matt Hasselbeck as the guideline I would be over the moon. Matt had one thing Seattle doesn't have and this is no slight, he had Mike Holmegren to teach him the position. Drew Lock needs to not lose games that's it. Victoria
Really enjoyed you starting off with this story and cool clip, then weaving it into the Drew Lock career trajectory. One of my favorites in a long time. Home run, Kenneth!
With all the QB conversations how come no one is defending Geno Smith? In the 4 games he played in last year he was solid and while he didn't win the games for us at the last minute, he also didn't lose those games for us. I haven't reviewed all of the available stats for QBs from last year, but the ones I did take a look at show Geno as middle of the pack or better.
Is it so bad to have an average QB? Especially with a new bell cow running back.
Oh ye of little faith. I don't mind being reminded of the boot hill of QB's which is full of QB's who failed and then continued failing. I get the math, but since comeback QB's have been so rare, but we logically believe that though difficult, there are certainly enough reasons one might expect we can point to a few cases of exceptions to the rule.
Well, if we go back far enough I believe we can find examples. Jim Plunkett was an outcast for quite a while before he won (?) a SB. I had a couple other obscure examples but they must have wandered too close to a brain fart. They exist. Still my point is that we are DUE for a comeback kid. Returning to the mean or some expression like that. Lock has all the earmarks for a comeback QB. You outlined the case that with a little embellishment reads like a cruel and sociopathic coach went out of his way to ruin a young QB's career because he rolled his eyes in a position group meeting.
Jim Plunkett, however I don't think this will happen for Lock. All this positive hype for Lock is nothing more than the Hawks playing CYA for trading away a future HOF QB. I don't care about arm strength, I care about completion %, Tds to interception ratio, fumbles, clutch performance when the game is on the line, and most importantly, won lost record.
I wonder if they will trade for Mayfield or Minshew when they go 1 and 3 or 1 and 4 to start and Lock turns out to be Lock? The Head Coach didn't like him is pure BS.
As a lifelong Hawks fan ( we had season tickets during the expansion years ) I hope I'm wrong.
Nice to know your former interest in IS. Long before anyone used the terms IT or IS, I was a computer programmer. That's the term of art in the days of the mainframe. When I got laid off, decided to take the LSAT and go to law school. I've been a lawyer for 26 years now. Ironically, along the way, I was bitten by the acting bug. Originally, I took acting to develop a courtroom presence. But then I saw what it was and it spoke deeply to me. For several years, I was really into it. It was like my soul found a new way to express itself and really wanted to be heard. Then I did a whole bunch of therapy and that burning need subsided. At some point, I was like "Why am I doing all this hard work for nothing?" LOL. When we think of great actors, and great artists in general, we're often thinking of people with severe emotional challenges. Brando was tormented by inner demons. Brando without demons would not have been Brando.
As for Lock, I agree with your assessment but am a little more open to the possibility of something special happening. It's true that past performance is the most accurate predictor of future performance most of the time. But not always. There are miracles.
In a way, even that's not fair because it implies it would require a miracle. It might just take some decent mentoring. No one has ever questioned Lock's arm. The issue has rightly been described as decision making. That could be said of a lot of QBs who never made the grade in the NFL. But humans are capable of growth and I'm moderately hopeful that Lock will thrive under this staff.
That said, I'm not expecting the second coming of Wilson. To function at that level would be something of a miracle because so few QBs ever do. I could see Lock as perfectly serviceable. It's hard to see him being the guy who leads impossible last minute drives down the field with consistency, though I'd of course be delighted if it were to happen. In the last ten years, I can think of only a handful of QBs who preformed with consistency at a level similar or above that of Russell Wilson. Not that he was perfect but he was very special. I could count the number of really special QBs during that time on the fingers of my two hands.
I don’t need a super star QB to be satisfied. He needs to make good choices under pressure, make the right adjustments, and take care of the ball. Keep the chain’s moving.
For Lock, is coaching the key or do we a need combination of coaching and a sytem suited to his strengths. Honestly, it seems like we should give him a spin and see what opens up. BTW, I thought you were pretty good though I do think you should have thrown a little Jim Carey overacting into the scene. What was it like working with the legendary Larry David?
It’s not entirely clear that Lock got a first chance!
If he has the same ceiling as Hasselbeck, Lock is definitely worth checking out. I have a theory that for a team to consistently contend, its QB must meet or exceed the Hasselbeck Threshold—i.e., a franchise can build a winning team around a QB who is at least as good as Matt Hasselbeck, but otherwise is a blind man wandering the desert, futilely waving a tin cup in pathetic hope for rain that will never come.*
That’s not a line of mediocrity. Matt H was a well above average QB who never quite achieved franchise-level status. The margin for error is less—a team has to be strong at the skill positions and build a good OL and DL…hmm…this sounds familiar…
*Which isn’t to say that lightning can’t strike once—the 2018 Eagles are Exhibit A of a good-enough team with an okay QB that got lucky and hot at the right time. But that’s not a plan for lasting success.
Thanks Ken. Glad you chose writing--or that it chose you!
There's a narrative on how you can win--and that's with a superstar QB. I'm interested in Lock because I think he can fit what PC sees in his QB. While I think Carroll is fine with Lock rapping on the sidelines, being his own guy, or even having a birthday (Fangio, that was lame, petty), He wants the on-field Lock to do key things. KNOW the position, run it well, don't turn the ball over, and fit the scheme.
Can Lock do that? A concern I've seen out of his scouting reports is that he sees the openings, but doesn't trust some throws and his hesitation turns into TOs. That can't and won't happen in Carroll system. He'd be replaced immediately.
However, Carroll doesn't need his QB trying to squeeze balls into spaces that are too tight. I think Russ had problems with that. He didn't like being told where to throw or not throw, he wanted to be the man on the field in control of the whole gig.
So can Lock take that spot as humble distributor of the rock, whether handing off to a hot RB whose in rhythm, or hitting DK on the quick-hitter for YACs? It's a non answered question at this point.
If he wants to be successful in Seattle, he will learn and do that. If not, I don't even think Carroll is adverse to letting Levi Lewis or Kaleb Eleby have a shot at it. Smith is also there and has shown he will do what the team wants--Carroll loves that.
But there may be a part of receiving Lock back in the Wilson trade that if they could be successful in 'winning that deal' in the always-compete world, I can't help but think they'd be excited about that too.
The fun part is the QB spot really is open competition to see who wins the position, and not a bunch of hand wringing by us over whether we're going to have to pay Wilson 55mil a year to try and make the playoffs.
Carroll wants a team where the QB is not the primary position, but one of many keys spots where they compete and win. At least that's what I read.
Kudos on the acting and career moves. I also enjoy your writing and perspective; as well as your followers.
I have been wondering what about Drew Lock? Who is Drew Lock? Why was he drafted? Did Seattle add him their list of demands in the trade? I looked at some film and them I looked at his draft scouting report.
Strengths
"—Three-year starter with big arm strength and a downfield gunslinger mentality.
—The best deep-ball thrower in the 2019 draft class, with excellent power to launch the ball vertically and the touch to lead the receiver to daylight." (Metcalf, Lockett)
I found some interesting observations on his "weaknesses" that has a unique tie in with your article as well
" —Production dropped from 44 touchdowns in 2017 to 28 in 2018 after offensive coordinator Josh Heupel left for UCF. Concerns that his breakout 2017 season were more scheme than talent."
"—Needs dedicated time to improving footwork, but must first buy in on the idea that his footwork needs to be changed." (Enter humble pie diet in Denver and door prize pawn in Wilson trade) His inconsistency on the shorter passing game and accuracy seem to be tied to mechanics especially footwork.
Overall quotes
"Drew Lock has excellent arm talent and an attacking, gunslinger mentality, but his poor mechanics will frustrate his coaches unless he's reined in" and
"he's one of the most NFL-prepared quarterbacks in the class. But with the remarkable also comes the subpar decision-making when pressured and poor accuracy when his footwork falls apart.
Lock has legitimate starting talent, but he needs a coach who can clean up his playing style and build an offense around his deep ball and movement skills." Hmmm
So what should Denver should have expected when they drafted him? Scouting take and comparison:
GRADE: 6.95 (ROUND 2 - FUTURE STARTER) Denver drafted him as their starter year one.
PRO COMPARISON: Matthew Stafford
Geno Smith Grades out higher in scouting reports but inconsistent accuracy is a knock on both and neither was supposed to start out of the gate, they were future starters. The Jets and Denver have had quite a train wreck when it comes to QB drafting and development. Wilson is Denver's 12th QB in 6 years.
Seattle will probably draft a QB next year but I will be interested to see if there is any chemistry with a young offensive line, some quality WR's, the potential of a good rush offense, Ken Norton not running the defense, a pass rush, corner continuity (Flowers not starting) and an interesting young coaching lineup. Both QB's know that opportunities are rare and Carroll's faith in underdogs might be good medicine for Seattle.
This year may not have the playoffs in the mix, but there might be some fun in football again in Seattle and a future in 23.
Great read as usual, Ken. Thanks a bunch.
My example will be dating me but it came to mind, Jim Plunket a winner of two Super Bowls.
On a personal note I got away from a very negative coaching staff in rugby and thrived. I actually won team MVP for the season, after going on a 7 game tour of England, Scotland and Ireland. I too have had a boss like you, that made me change my job I had been happy with for eight years.
I have not seen Drew play enough football to say he will be great, but he could be good. Chris Simm's says if he were in this draft he would be the number one quarterback. The two things the Hawks like about him is the deep ball and his running.
If Drew Lock can become a good quarterback using Matt Hasselbeck as the guideline I would be over the moon. Matt had one thing Seattle doesn't have and this is no slight, he had Mike Holmegren to teach him the position. Drew Lock needs to not lose games that's it. Victoria
Chris
Really enjoyed you starting off with this story and cool clip, then weaving it into the Drew Lock career trajectory. One of my favorites in a long time. Home run, Kenneth!
With all the QB conversations how come no one is defending Geno Smith? In the 4 games he played in last year he was solid and while he didn't win the games for us at the last minute, he also didn't lose those games for us. I haven't reviewed all of the available stats for QBs from last year, but the ones I did take a look at show Geno as middle of the pack or better.
Is it so bad to have an average QB? Especially with a new bell cow running back.
Oh ye of little faith. I don't mind being reminded of the boot hill of QB's which is full of QB's who failed and then continued failing. I get the math, but since comeback QB's have been so rare, but we logically believe that though difficult, there are certainly enough reasons one might expect we can point to a few cases of exceptions to the rule.
Well, if we go back far enough I believe we can find examples. Jim Plunkett was an outcast for quite a while before he won (?) a SB. I had a couple other obscure examples but they must have wandered too close to a brain fart. They exist. Still my point is that we are DUE for a comeback kid. Returning to the mean or some expression like that. Lock has all the earmarks for a comeback QB. You outlined the case that with a little embellishment reads like a cruel and sociopathic coach went out of his way to ruin a young QB's career because he rolled his eyes in a position group meeting.
Jim Plunkett, however I don't think this will happen for Lock. All this positive hype for Lock is nothing more than the Hawks playing CYA for trading away a future HOF QB. I don't care about arm strength, I care about completion %, Tds to interception ratio, fumbles, clutch performance when the game is on the line, and most importantly, won lost record.
I wonder if they will trade for Mayfield or Minshew when they go 1 and 3 or 1 and 4 to start and Lock turns out to be Lock? The Head Coach didn't like him is pure BS.
As a lifelong Hawks fan ( we had season tickets during the expansion years ) I hope I'm wrong.
Nice to know your former interest in IS. Long before anyone used the terms IT or IS, I was a computer programmer. That's the term of art in the days of the mainframe. When I got laid off, decided to take the LSAT and go to law school. I've been a lawyer for 26 years now. Ironically, along the way, I was bitten by the acting bug. Originally, I took acting to develop a courtroom presence. But then I saw what it was and it spoke deeply to me. For several years, I was really into it. It was like my soul found a new way to express itself and really wanted to be heard. Then I did a whole bunch of therapy and that burning need subsided. At some point, I was like "Why am I doing all this hard work for nothing?" LOL. When we think of great actors, and great artists in general, we're often thinking of people with severe emotional challenges. Brando was tormented by inner demons. Brando without demons would not have been Brando.
As for Lock, I agree with your assessment but am a little more open to the possibility of something special happening. It's true that past performance is the most accurate predictor of future performance most of the time. But not always. There are miracles.
In a way, even that's not fair because it implies it would require a miracle. It might just take some decent mentoring. No one has ever questioned Lock's arm. The issue has rightly been described as decision making. That could be said of a lot of QBs who never made the grade in the NFL. But humans are capable of growth and I'm moderately hopeful that Lock will thrive under this staff.
That said, I'm not expecting the second coming of Wilson. To function at that level would be something of a miracle because so few QBs ever do. I could see Lock as perfectly serviceable. It's hard to see him being the guy who leads impossible last minute drives down the field with consistency, though I'd of course be delighted if it were to happen. In the last ten years, I can think of only a handful of QBs who preformed with consistency at a level similar or above that of Russell Wilson. Not that he was perfect but he was very special. I could count the number of really special QBs during that time on the fingers of my two hands.
Kurt Warner count?
I don’t need a super star QB to be satisfied. He needs to make good choices under pressure, make the right adjustments, and take care of the ball. Keep the chain’s moving.
Thank you for another thoughtful read, Kenneth. Really appreciated.
For Lock, is coaching the key or do we a need combination of coaching and a sytem suited to his strengths. Honestly, it seems like we should give him a spin and see what opens up. BTW, I thought you were pretty good though I do think you should have thrown a little Jim Carey overacting into the scene. What was it like working with the legendary Larry David?
people commonly perform at the level their parent, boss or coach "expects" them to.
Hope it's okay to include a link, but this is a fun interview with Levi Lewis. Impressive young man.
https://espnlafayette.com/levi-lewis-on-signing-with-seattle-career-at-ul-answering-questions-from-scouts-about-his-height-what-drives-him-more-audio/
Can't not root for the guy. Even if he's our scout team QB getting the team ready for 'Kyler'
It’s not entirely clear that Lock got a first chance!
If he has the same ceiling as Hasselbeck, Lock is definitely worth checking out. I have a theory that for a team to consistently contend, its QB must meet or exceed the Hasselbeck Threshold—i.e., a franchise can build a winning team around a QB who is at least as good as Matt Hasselbeck, but otherwise is a blind man wandering the desert, futilely waving a tin cup in pathetic hope for rain that will never come.*
That’s not a line of mediocrity. Matt H was a well above average QB who never quite achieved franchise-level status. The margin for error is less—a team has to be strong at the skill positions and build a good OL and DL…hmm…this sounds familiar…
*Which isn’t to say that lightning can’t strike once—the 2018 Eagles are Exhibit A of a good-enough team with an okay QB that got lucky and hot at the right time. But that’s not a plan for lasting success.
Thanks Ken. Glad you chose writing--or that it chose you!
There's a narrative on how you can win--and that's with a superstar QB. I'm interested in Lock because I think he can fit what PC sees in his QB. While I think Carroll is fine with Lock rapping on the sidelines, being his own guy, or even having a birthday (Fangio, that was lame, petty), He wants the on-field Lock to do key things. KNOW the position, run it well, don't turn the ball over, and fit the scheme.
Can Lock do that? A concern I've seen out of his scouting reports is that he sees the openings, but doesn't trust some throws and his hesitation turns into TOs. That can't and won't happen in Carroll system. He'd be replaced immediately.
However, Carroll doesn't need his QB trying to squeeze balls into spaces that are too tight. I think Russ had problems with that. He didn't like being told where to throw or not throw, he wanted to be the man on the field in control of the whole gig.
So can Lock take that spot as humble distributor of the rock, whether handing off to a hot RB whose in rhythm, or hitting DK on the quick-hitter for YACs? It's a non answered question at this point.
If he wants to be successful in Seattle, he will learn and do that. If not, I don't even think Carroll is adverse to letting Levi Lewis or Kaleb Eleby have a shot at it. Smith is also there and has shown he will do what the team wants--Carroll loves that.
But there may be a part of receiving Lock back in the Wilson trade that if they could be successful in 'winning that deal' in the always-compete world, I can't help but think they'd be excited about that too.
The fun part is the QB spot really is open competition to see who wins the position, and not a bunch of hand wringing by us over whether we're going to have to pay Wilson 55mil a year to try and make the playoffs.
Carroll wants a team where the QB is not the primary position, but one of many keys spots where they compete and win. At least that's what I read.
Kudos on the acting and career moves. I also enjoy your writing and perspective; as well as your followers.
I have been wondering what about Drew Lock? Who is Drew Lock? Why was he drafted? Did Seattle add him their list of demands in the trade? I looked at some film and them I looked at his draft scouting report.
Strengths
"—Three-year starter with big arm strength and a downfield gunslinger mentality.
—The best deep-ball thrower in the 2019 draft class, with excellent power to launch the ball vertically and the touch to lead the receiver to daylight." (Metcalf, Lockett)
I found some interesting observations on his "weaknesses" that has a unique tie in with your article as well
" —Production dropped from 44 touchdowns in 2017 to 28 in 2018 after offensive coordinator Josh Heupel left for UCF. Concerns that his breakout 2017 season were more scheme than talent."
"—Needs dedicated time to improving footwork, but must first buy in on the idea that his footwork needs to be changed." (Enter humble pie diet in Denver and door prize pawn in Wilson trade) His inconsistency on the shorter passing game and accuracy seem to be tied to mechanics especially footwork.
Overall quotes
"Drew Lock has excellent arm talent and an attacking, gunslinger mentality, but his poor mechanics will frustrate his coaches unless he's reined in" and
"he's one of the most NFL-prepared quarterbacks in the class. But with the remarkable also comes the subpar decision-making when pressured and poor accuracy when his footwork falls apart.
Lock has legitimate starting talent, but he needs a coach who can clean up his playing style and build an offense around his deep ball and movement skills." Hmmm
So what should Denver should have expected when they drafted him? Scouting take and comparison:
GRADE: 6.95 (ROUND 2 - FUTURE STARTER) Denver drafted him as their starter year one.
PRO COMPARISON: Matthew Stafford
Geno Smith Grades out higher in scouting reports but inconsistent accuracy is a knock on both and neither was supposed to start out of the gate, they were future starters. The Jets and Denver have had quite a train wreck when it comes to QB drafting and development. Wilson is Denver's 12th QB in 6 years.
Seattle will probably draft a QB next year but I will be interested to see if there is any chemistry with a young offensive line, some quality WR's, the potential of a good rush offense, Ken Norton not running the defense, a pass rush, corner continuity (Flowers not starting) and an interesting young coaching lineup. Both QB's know that opportunities are rare and Carroll's faith in underdogs might be good medicine for Seattle.
This year may not have the playoffs in the mix, but there might be some fun in football again in Seattle and a future in 23.