In addition to the well reasoned, factually supported points you’ve made against the cap for Geno is that it doesn’t seem like a PC/JS thing to do. They almost never use the cap, twice if I remember correctly, and one was for Frank Clark before trading him. I just think Pete would rather build a team with as many good players as possible rather than sink a huge amount into QB and fill the roster with scrubs.
As to post combine thoughts- I’m convinced that Richardson is a phenomenal athlete, but am still not convinced he’s even a good QB. Maybe he’s our new edge rusher! :)
John and Pete have to be thinking about going up to the first pick. The Seahawks can offer the 5, 20, 36 that is easily equivalent to two first. Why the Seahawks do it - Russel Wilson trade equals a left tackle, a tight end, a backup Qb (we re-sign Lock), a promising DE and a starting Qb using 1 of our picks plus 25 million in extra Cap space for the next 4 years.
Why the Bears do it. If the Bears are staying with Fields they need to get better in a hurry and this is the draft to do it. Forget best defensive player available that is not going to help Fields. They need offensive linemen that can run block (there are several quality tackle’s available) a monster tight end and a high quality running back. Those are the kind of players that make a running Qb deadly. See e.g. Philadelphia, Baltimore, San Francisco with Kap, and us in the early Russ days. This is a very good draft for those kind of players. If I am Chicago what we offer is better than what I can get from either Houston or Carolina.
Great analysis, and I accept the reality. I have been saying Geno will realize that more is less. At least for one more year. Get himself some advertising money to make up the difference. I'm not sure he will improve, but the team can improve by adding pieces in this draft. Maybe better protection for Geno in the form of Darnell Washington and the best guard. Skoronski after a trade down? Most of the best talent played tackle in college. Mauch? and a center. Solidify the OL and keep Geno clean. Add to the defense as well. There will be some good players after the rest of the league cleans the carcass of the draft. Forgotten players that will fall.
Or not. Let Geno go and draft a QB. Wait until the draft and if Young or Stroud fall then let him compete with Drew Lock. That would be very Pete/John. Or take Hooker in the late second. Or even third. It was reported he will be ready for the next season.
Kenneth…I look forward everyday to getting the email with your latest!!! I feel like I smirk now every time I read a non seaside joe seahawk article 😆 I’d prefer they sign lock, trade for Z. Wilson as a backup…and draft McCall next year 😊
Because the Geno situation has to come together while fielding a complete team. Any 'tag' makes it so not only do they have to cut More players to do it, but they cannot sign the rest of the roster until a longer term extension can be agreed to - thus ham stinging any moves to fill out the roster.
Filling up our complete cap space with less than 40 players is absolutely nuts. No GM can even think of it and yet fans and media alike act like it Could happen...
What if we do not add Any other free-agents from the league or resort to resigning none of our own Seahawks free-agents to fill all those roster spots - could we afford that? (Emphatically) NO - And filling out the rest of the team via draft magic sounds cool, but we are short more than 13 players. We simply do not have enough draft picks to do that. Plus fielding a team-chalk full of rookies isn't free either and likely far less effective to build a winning team.
Simply put, there is No way to have Geno on this team without a multi-year contract and with the likely first year cap being north of the $20M range. Salary-cap manipulation that would make the first year cap hit That manageable would of course create heavier cap hits in subsequent years.
Plus, even 'only' $20M is virtually impossible to absorb for the 2023 season without affecting roster-building. Thus, it feels increasingly like Drew Lock for our 2023 starter with a cheap veteran signing as a back-up/camp-arm and a our prized rookie QB/future-starter in the fold.
Great job, Ken!! You deserve a lot of credit for your honesty and hard work throughout, and most of all for owning your mistakes. Who does that anymore?
I'll stick with my call too. I've been saying since mid-way through the season that it makes sense for the Hawks to re-sign Geno if they can do it for $15M or less without mortgaging the future. I think it unlikely another team won't provide as much or more with a longer guarantee so there's a good chance Geno leaves. Unless he really wants to play for Carroll, which is a possibility, or other offers don't materialize (also a possibility but less likely). I could see Geno with the Colts, the Ravens, maybe Washington or the Bucks. I doubt he'll go back to New York but it would make a great story. That could be where the best offer comes from because Woody knows it's all about the story.
The Seahawks are not a QB away from the Super Bowl, and tagging Geno would not help them build the roster they need to get there. I can, however, see them making their best offer and letting Geno test FA first. If he leaves, he leaves, and they move on to whatever comes next.
Would be shocked if they tag him. Would be less shocked if they reach a deal at some point thereafter.
I tell you what, though, the arms on those 3 QBs yesterday were the stuff of dreams. Stroud in particular seems overall to be a no brainer, at any draft position, if QB is on the list.
What would a list, ranked by probability of signig Geno, look like? Tampa would be on it, and Seattle, and maybe Washington and the Jets? Who else? To rank Seattle's probability I would rate it no greater than 33%, and it would only happen if Geno can't get a better deal from another team and comes back on a deal that makes sense for the Seahawks.
“If you love someone, set them free. If they come back, then they love you equally in return. If they don’t, they never did.”
Hardly the perfect metaphor, but it’s the only way we could afford Geno AND improve our roster. None of us could ever fault him for getting paid; he’s waited a decade for this. A decade! I would wish him well and genuinely cheer for him. But only through the next two drafts and wise FA moves do we become a Superb Owl contender again.
I must admit if I had not been reading Seaside Joe, I would have been upset that the Hawks weren't tagging Geno. That's because I would have been getting my info from regular sources. When the media talks about quarterback needy teams, they most often skip past Seattle. How much more needy can a team be, we have zero Quarterbacks signed for 2023. It doesn't do us any good to go into the draft this way. I suspect Drew or Geno or both will be signed by then. I do believe the Seahawks will take Anthony Richardson with pick number 5. After Richardsons combine the interview and his performance ,we will not get him at 20, which is what I had hoped.
I rec'd your post, but take exception to the idea of drafting A. Richardson. I saw Staton's video on this subject and I am beginning to believe he must be a gambling addict. No one but a gambling addict would bet on Richardson becoming a great QB over Stroud or Young and even over Levis. The risk is for people looking for a longshot to pay off. Personally, I'm looking for a sure thing.
I take your point but I could make the argument that saddling yourself with a bad contract for a mediocre QB would put you in a worse situation that the Hawks are with no QBs currently on the roster.
My point was every single show skips over Geno and Seattle's situation. Even when winning the Super Bowl, most media members didn't know a third of our players. When they do speak of this, they just say tag, meaning they are giving no effort to their high paying, fun job
Color me skeptical the Hawks take Richardson. I think his performance makes it more likely we get a great deal to trade down. I could see the Colts trading up for him, though possibly with Arizona, which would be fine too. Maybe Anderson or Carter falls to us. I'd take a chance on Carter at number 5 and Anderson would be a no-brainer if he's still there.
You've been on top of the situation from Day 1 but I think your best insight was that teams need to move on from the current system of overpaying QB's simply because they're QB's. If the Giants do actually tag Jones I think they're making a mistake... he's simply not worth it. Using the tag sets the baseline in pay, any long term contract they sign with him can't be less than $32 million per year. And overpaying him simply continues the trend making it harder on teams like the Seahawks who I believe want to do a reset on QB costs.
Agree. At some point, the Hawks are better off with Drew Lock and whatever resources signing him frees up. That’s true of pretty much every active QB not named Mahomes or Burrow and maybe Lawrence or Allen.
Look around the league at the veteran quarterbacks under contract for 2023. More than half are contracts I bet the teams would love to get out from under. Because Mahomes is worth $50 million, Daniel Jones is somehow worth $40 million? The “ pretty good” quarterback tier is a no man’s land.
That alone shouldn’t hamstring teams though. Like most teams, we have plenty of players under contract who are hurting us as much.
In addition to the well reasoned, factually supported points you’ve made against the cap for Geno is that it doesn’t seem like a PC/JS thing to do. They almost never use the cap, twice if I remember correctly, and one was for Frank Clark before trading him. I just think Pete would rather build a team with as many good players as possible rather than sink a huge amount into QB and fill the roster with scrubs.
As to post combine thoughts- I’m convinced that Richardson is a phenomenal athlete, but am still not convinced he’s even a good QB. Maybe he’s our new edge rusher! :)
John and Pete have to be thinking about going up to the first pick. The Seahawks can offer the 5, 20, 36 that is easily equivalent to two first. Why the Seahawks do it - Russel Wilson trade equals a left tackle, a tight end, a backup Qb (we re-sign Lock), a promising DE and a starting Qb using 1 of our picks plus 25 million in extra Cap space for the next 4 years.
Why the Bears do it. If the Bears are staying with Fields they need to get better in a hurry and this is the draft to do it. Forget best defensive player available that is not going to help Fields. They need offensive linemen that can run block (there are several quality tackle’s available) a monster tight end and a high quality running back. Those are the kind of players that make a running Qb deadly. See e.g. Philadelphia, Baltimore, San Francisco with Kap, and us in the early Russ days. This is a very good draft for those kind of players. If I am Chicago what we offer is better than what I can get from either Houston or Carolina.
Young measured 5’ 10”. How far do we have to go up to get him?
Great analysis, and I accept the reality. I have been saying Geno will realize that more is less. At least for one more year. Get himself some advertising money to make up the difference. I'm not sure he will improve, but the team can improve by adding pieces in this draft. Maybe better protection for Geno in the form of Darnell Washington and the best guard. Skoronski after a trade down? Most of the best talent played tackle in college. Mauch? and a center. Solidify the OL and keep Geno clean. Add to the defense as well. There will be some good players after the rest of the league cleans the carcass of the draft. Forgotten players that will fall.
Or not. Let Geno go and draft a QB. Wait until the draft and if Young or Stroud fall then let him compete with Drew Lock. That would be very Pete/John. Or take Hooker in the late second. Or even third. It was reported he will be ready for the next season.
I stop reading as soon as I come to “<Team> will do what it takes to sign <Player>.”
Kenneth…I look forward everyday to getting the email with your latest!!! I feel like I smirk now every time I read a non seaside joe seahawk article 😆 I’d prefer they sign lock, trade for Z. Wilson as a backup…and draft McCall next year 😊
I actually think I'm back on the Will Levis hype train... All Aboard! Woo Woo!
Casey Bell
Agree with EACH of your 3 wants!!!
Because the Geno situation has to come together while fielding a complete team. Any 'tag' makes it so not only do they have to cut More players to do it, but they cannot sign the rest of the roster until a longer term extension can be agreed to - thus ham stinging any moves to fill out the roster.
Filling up our complete cap space with less than 40 players is absolutely nuts. No GM can even think of it and yet fans and media alike act like it Could happen...
What if we do not add Any other free-agents from the league or resort to resigning none of our own Seahawks free-agents to fill all those roster spots - could we afford that? (Emphatically) NO - And filling out the rest of the team via draft magic sounds cool, but we are short more than 13 players. We simply do not have enough draft picks to do that. Plus fielding a team-chalk full of rookies isn't free either and likely far less effective to build a winning team.
Simply put, there is No way to have Geno on this team without a multi-year contract and with the likely first year cap being north of the $20M range. Salary-cap manipulation that would make the first year cap hit That manageable would of course create heavier cap hits in subsequent years.
Plus, even 'only' $20M is virtually impossible to absorb for the 2023 season without affecting roster-building. Thus, it feels increasingly like Drew Lock for our 2023 starter with a cheap veteran signing as a back-up/camp-arm and a our prized rookie QB/future-starter in the fold.
Great job, Ken!! You deserve a lot of credit for your honesty and hard work throughout, and most of all for owning your mistakes. Who does that anymore?
I'll stick with my call too. I've been saying since mid-way through the season that it makes sense for the Hawks to re-sign Geno if they can do it for $15M or less without mortgaging the future. I think it unlikely another team won't provide as much or more with a longer guarantee so there's a good chance Geno leaves. Unless he really wants to play for Carroll, which is a possibility, or other offers don't materialize (also a possibility but less likely). I could see Geno with the Colts, the Ravens, maybe Washington or the Bucks. I doubt he'll go back to New York but it would make a great story. That could be where the best offer comes from because Woody knows it's all about the story.
The Seahawks are not a QB away from the Super Bowl, and tagging Geno would not help them build the roster they need to get there. I can, however, see them making their best offer and letting Geno test FA first. If he leaves, he leaves, and they move on to whatever comes next.
Would be shocked if they tag him. Would be less shocked if they reach a deal at some point thereafter.
I tell you what, though, the arms on those 3 QBs yesterday were the stuff of dreams. Stroud in particular seems overall to be a no brainer, at any draft position, if QB is on the list.
What would a list, ranked by probability of signig Geno, look like? Tampa would be on it, and Seattle, and maybe Washington and the Jets? Who else? To rank Seattle's probability I would rate it no greater than 33%, and it would only happen if Geno can't get a better deal from another team and comes back on a deal that makes sense for the Seahawks.
“If you love someone, set them free. If they come back, then they love you equally in return. If they don’t, they never did.”
Hardly the perfect metaphor, but it’s the only way we could afford Geno AND improve our roster. None of us could ever fault him for getting paid; he’s waited a decade for this. A decade! I would wish him well and genuinely cheer for him. But only through the next two drafts and wise FA moves do we become a Superb Owl contender again.
Only one decade... I'm still waiting after 3 decades. :-)
I must admit if I had not been reading Seaside Joe, I would have been upset that the Hawks weren't tagging Geno. That's because I would have been getting my info from regular sources. When the media talks about quarterback needy teams, they most often skip past Seattle. How much more needy can a team be, we have zero Quarterbacks signed for 2023. It doesn't do us any good to go into the draft this way. I suspect Drew or Geno or both will be signed by then. I do believe the Seahawks will take Anthony Richardson with pick number 5. After Richardsons combine the interview and his performance ,we will not get him at 20, which is what I had hoped.
I rec'd your post, but take exception to the idea of drafting A. Richardson. I saw Staton's video on this subject and I am beginning to believe he must be a gambling addict. No one but a gambling addict would bet on Richardson becoming a great QB over Stroud or Young and even over Levis. The risk is for people looking for a longshot to pay off. Personally, I'm looking for a sure thing.
I take your point but I could make the argument that saddling yourself with a bad contract for a mediocre QB would put you in a worse situation that the Hawks are with no QBs currently on the roster.
My point was every single show skips over Geno and Seattle's situation. Even when winning the Super Bowl, most media members didn't know a third of our players. When they do speak of this, they just say tag, meaning they are giving no effort to their high paying, fun job
Color me skeptical the Hawks take Richardson. I think his performance makes it more likely we get a great deal to trade down. I could see the Colts trading up for him, though possibly with Arizona, which would be fine too. Maybe Anderson or Carter falls to us. I'd take a chance on Carter at number 5 and Anderson would be a no-brainer if he's still there.
No Anderson, no Carter = trade down. We need the picks
That's a great point. The performance of AR, Levis and Stroud yesterday could only have bumped up the value of the Hawk's #5 spot.
People still want Carter, despite the now very long list of legitimate character and personality issues?
I'd certainly want the Hawks to interview the kid and maybe perform some psychological tests. Then it's a matter of assessing risk vs. reward.
I wouldn’t take Carter at pick 20 at this point. Someone surely will though.
You've been on top of the situation from Day 1 but I think your best insight was that teams need to move on from the current system of overpaying QB's simply because they're QB's. If the Giants do actually tag Jones I think they're making a mistake... he's simply not worth it. Using the tag sets the baseline in pay, any long term contract they sign with him can't be less than $32 million per year. And overpaying him simply continues the trend making it harder on teams like the Seahawks who I believe want to do a reset on QB costs.
Agree. At some point, the Hawks are better off with Drew Lock and whatever resources signing him frees up. That’s true of pretty much every active QB not named Mahomes or Burrow and maybe Lawrence or Allen.
Look around the league at the veteran quarterbacks under contract for 2023. More than half are contracts I bet the teams would love to get out from under. Because Mahomes is worth $50 million, Daniel Jones is somehow worth $40 million? The “ pretty good” quarterback tier is a no man’s land.
That alone shouldn’t hamstring teams though. Like most teams, we have plenty of players under contract who are hurting us as much.