You've convinced me on CBs. Im changing my vote from the most important position on the defense from edge rusher to DB. Make sense in a passing league. Good info! Thanks
This “Do top tier defensive coordinators like Steve Spagnuolo and Vic Fangio neeed elite cornerbacks? Or do they make elite cornerbacks?” Coaching. And overall we’ve seen it here. Browner. Not much. Comes here and excels, leaves, not much. DJ as noted in article one of the few going other way. Lane another. Griffin. What is big for this position group, that natural skill. Sherman was mediocre at his original position. But his ability to sense combined with that height and width was something hard to coach.
Thanks for sharing. Riq could be the greatest corner ever if he'd get cerebral...he's got all the tools. While the video makes plenty of valid points, Riq has areas to improve, but the good thing is he will get the chance to show it. I hope he balls out and we are able to resign both he and Woolen. I want to keep the band together if it's making good music.
I am not often attracted to looking at the cap game numbers, but I know it affects every player extension decision. Months ago I felt Woolen had a good probability of extension. Then I heard Brady Henderson talk about who from the 2022 class would get an extension and Woolen was the least likely at 1 out of 10. That was based more on his lapses of concentration and effort on some plays during the season. A big no no with MM. SSJ’s explanation of the cost of a Woolen contract when considering what Spoon will cost, and his impact vs Woolen’s impact make it clear we can’t pay a huge salary to absent a big fall off or injury to Spoon.
Going back to yesterday’s article on the O-line, we have to keep cash around for Lucas and Cross if they up their game and look to be in good health. Good CBs are magnitudes easier to find than good OTs. Save the money at CB.
After watching the entire season only watching Riq, which I have done now, I honestly think his biggest issues are where his eyes are looking and his transition speed. Woolen had several examples of breaking down and changing direction too slowly. He has one of a kind closing speed, but it takes a few strides to build up. Just watch the last play of the first Rams game, it's a microcosm of Woolens issues. At the snap Woolen is staring into the backfield watching only the QB and charges forward at a possible slant route, when the WR does a slugo (slant and go) Woolen is super slow to break down and flip hips and break deep. Once Woolen gets going he catches the WR but had not looked for the ball which drops right over him and Robinson makes a great one handed catch, but the point remains. Football is a game of inches, and it's the inches between Woolens ears that concern me the most. Fix that, and he's golden. Don't fix it...and you end up with a player that can generate stats because of his elite speed, but gives up too many plays to be trusted.
Just read the article on Bo Nix featured on ESPN. It details something similar to what I'm trying to explain about processing speed in a players head. I would encourage all to read it.
If we can only sign one I would rather keep 'Spoon than Riq. But if Riq has a good enough season, you'd think we could keep both and take the Eagles approach to the cap with our star players. And it's not as if we have many stars on our roster.
And to be clear, Riq isn't one yet and I'm not suggesting that he's a star. That video was interesting. I have watched every snap he's played, and I certainly didn't think he was getting better every year. I found him a very frustrating player. He showed he had the talent to make amazing plays, but couldn't seem to consistently make them. My worry that his build wouldn't hold up in the NFL hasn't come true at all, seeing as his only missed time that I can remember was his two instances of being benched. I did think he played better in zone than he got credit for, but people weren't making up his tackling woes. He often looks downright hesitant in run support, and I think his lanky frame just isn't designed for driving through contact. Hence the arm tackle attempts. His athleticism is elite though, and I trust that Mike Mac will put him a position to succeed. It's going to be an interesting season -and off season next year!
I've always liked Riq, despite his flaws, and would love to see him remain a Seahawk on a second contract. I completely agree, however, that this is unlikely given that retaining Spoon must be our priority for the secondary. I believe Riq's likelihood of getting an extension with the Seahawks will be more based on team success than individual success. If he has a great year and we make a deep playoff run, JS may be willing to mortgage the future somewhat to keep the band together. If he has a great year, but the team has holes to fill, we'll need that cap room for other areas. Coby falls into this scenario as well. It's a good problem to have, I suppose, but it's tough as fans to see good players go in the prime of their careers.
Positional value is a thing. But I think looking at that exclusively, and not looking at the player would be a mistake. For 'force multipliers', as MacDonald calls them, you take them at any position. I don't care if Spoon is a CB, you pay him and keep him. I think Mike also talked about building your defense inside out, so DT's before DE's, LB's before DB's, Safeties before CB's. But, a player like Spoon you take regardless of position.
I agree fully that we likely won't pay Woolen AND Spoon......at least not what they're worth. Woolen already knows this, per his interview with Seattle Sports yesterday. He knows it's a big year for him, and he knows it could be his last in Seattle. He'll get paid, somewhere.
I'm too lazy to look at every team, but I'd put our current DB room (S's and CB's) up against anyone's. Can any other team do better than Love, Bryant, Emmanwori, Woolen, and Spoon? I can't think of any.
I would like him to be extended. And I think that Spoon’s intensity and blitzing make him overvalued, and Riq’s laid back vibe and playing out of view of thecamera make him undervalued. Playing forward, Spoon is much better. Dropping, Riq is much better. They truly complement each other.
I wouldn't take offense at the Hawks not re-signing Woolen, my issue is that a lot of people seem to think he's a bad cornerback due to what I consider to be over-hyped tackling issues and a couple of benchings. The man is a very talented CB and I believe the tackling issues are mostly corrected and the benchings were simple Pete and Mike saying "you're too talented to not be 100% focused on this so I'm benching you briefly to get your attention".
You don't bench guys for a game if he's not good, you make him a permanent backup. Riq is good and can be great. If that makes him too expensive then that's a good problem to have.
We seem to be comfortable with mid-priced LB's and safeties (and our guys punch above their weight), so that would imply more cash for corners and DL/edge. My view would be if you are able to find those, would be great to keep them -- Spoon and Tariq (if he returns to form), Mafe and Hall, and Murphy II. If we're fortunate to pick up guys like Reed and Lawrence for mid-priced contracts, let's keep our young 'uns who have learned MacDonald's system, take advantage of the rising cap and our lack of deap cap, and ride the next 5-6 yrs on our draft wins
Football in a way is a reflective sport between offense and defense. Meaning RBs are LBs, Guards/Centers are D Tackles, O Tackles are Edges, WR are cornerbacks etc.
Football is an ever changing sport which is one of the coolest parts about it. What worked in 1990 may have changed in 2025. With those changes the chess pieces change value.
1) Running backs have been devalued recently ... So what would we expect on the defense? Linebackers become less valuable (run stopping LBs). I think about LaDanian Tomlinson and Brian Urlacher but there are tons of examples. How many middle LBs get touted today? As always, there are some (Roquan Smith). But our really good LB (Jones) just signed for $10M Guaranteed $9.5M APY (very cheap relative to other positions).
2) Call it the Aaron Donald effect if you want. But we have seen a move towards valuable D Tackles as they have become a threat to attack the QB (Jalen Carter, we hope Byron Murphy/Leo). So what would we expect and JS missed? Guards become more valuable because they are the ones defending the attacking interior rushers. Most D Tackles back in the day were cloggers and run stoppers, that has changed.
And finally, this also goes with the article yesterday that I agree with, I would rather have a stout line than WRs. The reflective position to that is that I would rather save money at cornerback.
All these changes have their exceptions as the article points out, Top WR are still game changers and should be paid accordingly along with top cornerbacks. But, as the article points out, we could be seeing a move away from the average CB (and WR?) pay level in relativity to the rest of the players.
I don't see Woolen getting the extension and I am ok with that ... Just as I was ok with letting DK go.
Zone is played %70 by NFL defenses compared to Man to Man. That gives cornerbacks less stress knowing that they are only playing a certain part of the field. Less responsibility equals less pay. Makes sense that top CBs who can play man to man every down, can follow and shut down a top receiver get the big bucks.
So, I would expect to see what the article is talking about. There will be a big spread between true shut down corners and true elite WR and the average CBs/WRs. Why? Because the game has changed to more zone which lessens responsibilities as you say and lessens the value of CBs (WRs) from one to the next.
Im hoping Woolen balls out, gets all pro votes, voted to Probowl, so he can sign a ridiculous contract elsewhere and we receive a 3rd round compensation pick for it.
Sign and trades are more of an NBA thing I think? Im not sure if I've seen that done in the NFL. Also, I'm not sure if his value would be second round pick tradable.
Should have said tag and trade (which you also don't see often); but you're right. I wonder if there's something in the CBA forbidding sign and trade since you can trade a player under contract?
I’ll worry about which elite cornerback to keep when we have two elite cornerbacks. Right not, we don’t have even one.
You've convinced me on CBs. Im changing my vote from the most important position on the defense from edge rusher to DB. Make sense in a passing league. Good info! Thanks
This “Do top tier defensive coordinators like Steve Spagnuolo and Vic Fangio neeed elite cornerbacks? Or do they make elite cornerbacks?” Coaching. And overall we’ve seen it here. Browner. Not much. Comes here and excels, leaves, not much. DJ as noted in article one of the few going other way. Lane another. Griffin. What is big for this position group, that natural skill. Sherman was mediocre at his original position. But his ability to sense combined with that height and width was something hard to coach.
Regarding re-signing Riq Woolen, please watch this video:
Very good content from someone SSJ has included before. Plenty of game tape as receipts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G42wiJm9x58
Thanks for sharing. Riq could be the greatest corner ever if he'd get cerebral...he's got all the tools. While the video makes plenty of valid points, Riq has areas to improve, but the good thing is he will get the chance to show it. I hope he balls out and we are able to resign both he and Woolen. I want to keep the band together if it's making good music.
Very good watch / listen, Stephen. Thanks.
Thanks. It sure convinced me. If Emmanwori can lock down the slot receiver, I'm not sure who they can scheme open. Maybe the RB?
I am not often attracted to looking at the cap game numbers, but I know it affects every player extension decision. Months ago I felt Woolen had a good probability of extension. Then I heard Brady Henderson talk about who from the 2022 class would get an extension and Woolen was the least likely at 1 out of 10. That was based more on his lapses of concentration and effort on some plays during the season. A big no no with MM. SSJ’s explanation of the cost of a Woolen contract when considering what Spoon will cost, and his impact vs Woolen’s impact make it clear we can’t pay a huge salary to absent a big fall off or injury to Spoon.
Going back to yesterday’s article on the O-line, we have to keep cash around for Lucas and Cross if they up their game and look to be in good health. Good CBs are magnitudes easier to find than good OTs. Save the money at CB.
After watching the entire season only watching Riq, which I have done now, I honestly think his biggest issues are where his eyes are looking and his transition speed. Woolen had several examples of breaking down and changing direction too slowly. He has one of a kind closing speed, but it takes a few strides to build up. Just watch the last play of the first Rams game, it's a microcosm of Woolens issues. At the snap Woolen is staring into the backfield watching only the QB and charges forward at a possible slant route, when the WR does a slugo (slant and go) Woolen is super slow to break down and flip hips and break deep. Once Woolen gets going he catches the WR but had not looked for the ball which drops right over him and Robinson makes a great one handed catch, but the point remains. Football is a game of inches, and it's the inches between Woolens ears that concern me the most. Fix that, and he's golden. Don't fix it...and you end up with a player that can generate stats because of his elite speed, but gives up too many plays to be trusted.
Just read the article on Bo Nix featured on ESPN. It details something similar to what I'm trying to explain about processing speed in a players head. I would encourage all to read it.
That’s a really good article. One of the better ones at ESPN in that it’s illuminating, not just giving fans what ESPN THINKS they want.
If we can only sign one I would rather keep 'Spoon than Riq. But if Riq has a good enough season, you'd think we could keep both and take the Eagles approach to the cap with our star players. And it's not as if we have many stars on our roster.
And to be clear, Riq isn't one yet and I'm not suggesting that he's a star. That video was interesting. I have watched every snap he's played, and I certainly didn't think he was getting better every year. I found him a very frustrating player. He showed he had the talent to make amazing plays, but couldn't seem to consistently make them. My worry that his build wouldn't hold up in the NFL hasn't come true at all, seeing as his only missed time that I can remember was his two instances of being benched. I did think he played better in zone than he got credit for, but people weren't making up his tackling woes. He often looks downright hesitant in run support, and I think his lanky frame just isn't designed for driving through contact. Hence the arm tackle attempts. His athleticism is elite though, and I trust that Mike Mac will put him a position to succeed. It's going to be an interesting season -and off season next year!
I've always liked Riq, despite his flaws, and would love to see him remain a Seahawk on a second contract. I completely agree, however, that this is unlikely given that retaining Spoon must be our priority for the secondary. I believe Riq's likelihood of getting an extension with the Seahawks will be more based on team success than individual success. If he has a great year and we make a deep playoff run, JS may be willing to mortgage the future somewhat to keep the band together. If he has a great year, but the team has holes to fill, we'll need that cap room for other areas. Coby falls into this scenario as well. It's a good problem to have, I suppose, but it's tough as fans to see good players go in the prime of their careers.
Positional value is a thing. But I think looking at that exclusively, and not looking at the player would be a mistake. For 'force multipliers', as MacDonald calls them, you take them at any position. I don't care if Spoon is a CB, you pay him and keep him. I think Mike also talked about building your defense inside out, so DT's before DE's, LB's before DB's, Safeties before CB's. But, a player like Spoon you take regardless of position.
I agree fully that we likely won't pay Woolen AND Spoon......at least not what they're worth. Woolen already knows this, per his interview with Seattle Sports yesterday. He knows it's a big year for him, and he knows it could be his last in Seattle. He'll get paid, somewhere.
I'm too lazy to look at every team, but I'd put our current DB room (S's and CB's) up against anyone's. Can any other team do better than Love, Bryant, Emmanwori, Woolen, and Spoon? I can't think of any.
Yea, this makes sense. I suppose we can trade Woolen for a second round pick or get a third round compensatory pick a year later. I'll take it.
Just don’t trade him off if we’re in the hunt and looking like the division winner. :)
I would like him to be extended. And I think that Spoon’s intensity and blitzing make him overvalued, and Riq’s laid back vibe and playing out of view of thecamera make him undervalued. Playing forward, Spoon is much better. Dropping, Riq is much better. They truly complement each other.
I wouldn't take offense at the Hawks not re-signing Woolen, my issue is that a lot of people seem to think he's a bad cornerback due to what I consider to be over-hyped tackling issues and a couple of benchings. The man is a very talented CB and I believe the tackling issues are mostly corrected and the benchings were simple Pete and Mike saying "you're too talented to not be 100% focused on this so I'm benching you briefly to get your attention".
You don't bench guys for a game if he's not good, you make him a permanent backup. Riq is good and can be great. If that makes him too expensive then that's a good problem to have.
We seem to be comfortable with mid-priced LB's and safeties (and our guys punch above their weight), so that would imply more cash for corners and DL/edge. My view would be if you are able to find those, would be great to keep them -- Spoon and Tariq (if he returns to form), Mafe and Hall, and Murphy II. If we're fortunate to pick up guys like Reed and Lawrence for mid-priced contracts, let's keep our young 'uns who have learned MacDonald's system, take advantage of the rising cap and our lack of deap cap, and ride the next 5-6 yrs on our draft wins
Football in a way is a reflective sport between offense and defense. Meaning RBs are LBs, Guards/Centers are D Tackles, O Tackles are Edges, WR are cornerbacks etc.
Football is an ever changing sport which is one of the coolest parts about it. What worked in 1990 may have changed in 2025. With those changes the chess pieces change value.
1) Running backs have been devalued recently ... So what would we expect on the defense? Linebackers become less valuable (run stopping LBs). I think about LaDanian Tomlinson and Brian Urlacher but there are tons of examples. How many middle LBs get touted today? As always, there are some (Roquan Smith). But our really good LB (Jones) just signed for $10M Guaranteed $9.5M APY (very cheap relative to other positions).
2) Call it the Aaron Donald effect if you want. But we have seen a move towards valuable D Tackles as they have become a threat to attack the QB (Jalen Carter, we hope Byron Murphy/Leo). So what would we expect and JS missed? Guards become more valuable because they are the ones defending the attacking interior rushers. Most D Tackles back in the day were cloggers and run stoppers, that has changed.
And finally, this also goes with the article yesterday that I agree with, I would rather have a stout line than WRs. The reflective position to that is that I would rather save money at cornerback.
All these changes have their exceptions as the article points out, Top WR are still game changers and should be paid accordingly along with top cornerbacks. But, as the article points out, we could be seeing a move away from the average CB (and WR?) pay level in relativity to the rest of the players.
I don't see Woolen getting the extension and I am ok with that ... Just as I was ok with letting DK go.
Zone is played %70 by NFL defenses compared to Man to Man. That gives cornerbacks less stress knowing that they are only playing a certain part of the field. Less responsibility equals less pay. Makes sense that top CBs who can play man to man every down, can follow and shut down a top receiver get the big bucks.
Exactly.
So, I would expect to see what the article is talking about. There will be a big spread between true shut down corners and true elite WR and the average CBs/WRs. Why? Because the game has changed to more zone which lessens responsibilities as you say and lessens the value of CBs (WRs) from one to the next.
Im hoping Woolen balls out, gets all pro votes, voted to Probowl, so he can sign a ridiculous contract elsewhere and we receive a 3rd round compensation pick for it.
Surely if he has a season that good, we can pull off a sign & trade for more value than a 3rd?
Sign and trades are more of an NBA thing I think? Im not sure if I've seen that done in the NFL. Also, I'm not sure if his value would be second round pick tradable.
Should have said tag and trade (which you also don't see often); but you're right. I wonder if there's something in the CBA forbidding sign and trade since you can trade a player under contract?