Grubb's shotgun killer?
"Seahawks OC doesn't understand the OL problems" says former NFL guard
If there’s ONE stat about Ryan Grubb’s first season as the Seahawks offensive coordinator that you should paint on a sign and stick in your yard, it’s this one:
In 2023, Geno Smith averaged 23 shotgun pass attempts per game and had 4 shotgun snaps for every 1 under center snap.
In Grubb’s first season as OC, Geno is averaging 38 shotgun passes per game and 10 shotgun snaps for every 1 under center.
According to retired Pro Bowl guard Mark Schlereth during an interview with Seattle Sports this week, Grubb’s overusage of shotgun calls is as much of a reason for the Seahawks poor offensive line play as anything else: “Show me a team that gives up seven sacks and I’ll show you a team that has a coordinator that doesn’t understand what the problems are up front.”
For the most part, Grubb’s name hasn’t been brought up positively or negatively, but that’s mostly because of the shadows being cast by Geno Smith and the defense. Now the results aren’t there, the offensive production isn’t there, and it’s a valid question of how much Grubb’s sometimes-extreme imbalance as a playcaller (run vs. pass, shotgun vs. under center) is holding the Seahawks back.
Here’s another comparison:
Geno in shotgun this season: 213/313, 9 TD, 10 INT, 26 sacks, 86.3 rating
Geno under center: 20/29, 2 TD, 0 INT, 2 sacks, 113.1
Maybe Schlereth has a point.
What else did he say about the Seahawks?
The full interview can be watched here, but I will transcribe some parts below.
Schlereth noted that the Seahawks offensive line was “really bad” against the Rams, and here’s his explanation on why being under center matters:
“Because when I’m under center and we run play action, linebackers have to step up. In shotgun, linebackers can see the backfield much cleaner than if you’re under center. The QB turns his back to the defense when you run play action under center, and in shotgun you don’t.
So the ball never truly gets hidden. In shotgun, defenses tend to play high to low, meaning they get deeper drops and take away intermediate routes. When you’re playing under center, linebackers play about a yard closer to the ball and then when you turn your back to the defense, they can’t help but step up, same with safeties, and so you create a bigger space between the linebackers and the deep coverage. So it creates easier throwing windows and quicker throws and in turn helps the offensive line.”
Dave Wyman, a former linebacker, agrees about shotgun being easier to read. What are your thoughts on shotgun vs. under center?
Key Points from Mark Schlereth:
On chemistry, continuity: “As long as all 5 OL are doing the wrong thing together, it will be a successful play.”
On OL penalties: “When you get a lot of penalties as an offensive line, what it tells me is you’re out of position. You’re either out of position because you don’t have good feet or hands, or because you’re dumb and you don’t understand where your help is, how to use people’s body presence, or how to funnel people where you want them to go.”
On Geno: “Because he feels so much pressure, he speeds up…When your clock speeds up, your feet speed up, and the timing of the offense is set to the QB’s feet…I think he’s so sped up, he’s forcing the ball, he’s early when the receivers aren’t open yet, and he’s making some bad decisions.”
A second Geno opinion
One more analysis I want to share this week comes from Bryce Coutts (HawkZone Rundown Podcast) on Seahawks Forever. Bryce sheds more light on what to do/not to do as quarterback, starting with Geno’s pick-six to Rams rookie Kam Kinchens:
“I work with quarterbacks and I’m an offensive coordinator. My rule of thumb with my quarterbacks is that if you’re getting pressure from your front side and the guy is within 2-3 steps of you, you need to either take off or you need to just eat that ball and just give up on that play. What happened on the one to JSN on the first red zone pick, Geno is trying to throw the ball with Jared Verse bearing down on him and Verse makes contact with his elbow on the throw, so he can’t get as much on it.
Geno can’t do that.
He knows that pressure is coming…He had no rotational force on the ball because his feet weren’t set, so he’s basically throwing with all arm strength. The slightest contact is going to completely kill that ball’s velocity and there it went right to the defender sitting there. If he eats that ball, it’s second down.”
It’s not all negative criticism, there’s plenty more said about Geno’s all-around performance and that’s linked to the correct timecode right here:
Just like offensive line, there’s so much more nuance to playing the quarterback position than simply, “Did the quarterback overthrow him or did the receiver run the wrong route?”, so any additional context about the right way to play it that might help explain interceptions (by any QB) when you see them happen in the future is the takeaway from this explanation by Bryce.
Hopefully in the future the context is about Geno throwing a touchdown…from under center.
Bonus: 3 easy steps to rebuild the offensive line
Seaside Joe 2047
Here's what I don't know. Well, a lot. But regarding shotgun vs. under center, supposedly the smart people say that a lot of QBs don't like to turn their backs for play action, because they miss a beat of what's developing, and they just don't have the skillset to have one view pre-snap, turn to hand off or not, and then to read the defense again and see the patterns. It probably takes a ton of film study to know if this is a Geno weakness. But given that he did decently last year with more under-center plays than this year, that doesn't seem to be the case. So this is a legit question. One thing that seems toast: Creativity. Watch the Chiefs. They do a TON with short passing that's all about having another second of time for Mahomes. I know, I know, Geno ain't that. But TIME heals a lot of wounds, and if you have just a little more of it you get to more complex routes. Seattle cannot, because they have zero time. So even a lot of crap pre-snap doesn't matter. Anything that might have come with time has expired.
I really enjoyed listening to Bryce Coutts clip. He is exactly right and makes great points about when a right-handed QB gets pressure from his right, he needs to ground it or take a sack or try to run. Geno Smith cannot make that turnover at that moment.
The Barner interception opinion is a bit more flimsy but makes good points also. However, Will Rogers is not a good QB and has not done much with the Huskies. Maybe Geno should have grounded it? I don't know.
What I do know ... is that Coutts sounds very conservative. If we want Geno to play like this our offense wouldn't move the ball at all. Geno got pressured on 60% of his drop backs. So 3 out of 5 drop backs you want Geno to take a sack or throw the ball away? Huh? Due to the offensive line situation, Geno has to take some of these risks on. In this game alone you saw him make big time throws, off center, with rushers all around him. The end of the first half TD to JSN being the best example. If Coutts wants to (rightfully) criticize his decision to try and make a play in the end zone that was too much risk, he should also criticize ten other decisions that resulted in TDs or explosive plays because when you are Geno Smith, almost every play you are going to have pressure.
Furthermore, Geno Smith has one of the lowest Turnover Worthy Plays % in the NFL. He only has 10 TWPs and somehow has 10 interceptions. That is not a QB (not even including the pressures) making bad decisions that is a QB getting unlucky. Like throwing a dime to JSN and having him volleyball in the air to get picked off. What is Geno supposed to do? Not throw the ball to an open WR?
Overall, really enjoyed Coutts' opinion and he knows ball, but I don't think he is giving enough consideration to Geno's situation and then extrapolating a conclusion that goes against what we have seen. Just my two cents