Regarding Cooper Kupp, I'll leave that for JS and Coop to work out. I would just say that it is true he isn't a top 50 receiver if you measure it in catches and yards. But, if you measure it in value to the team, I think he's right up there. Makes big catches, is a coach and mentor on and off the field, is one of the best block WR's in the league, and sets a standard for everyone else and holds them to it. He's a life coach. He's the anti DK Metcalf. Towards the end of the 4th quarter in the Super Bowl, players were coming up to him asking him why he wasn't smiling. His response? 'I'll smile when there are 3 zeros on the scoreboard'. That's Cooper Kupp. Game ain't over guys. Keep playing. What's that worth in $$'s, I have no idea. But he's a gem of a person and player.
Will we get any of these guys on discount because of the brotherhood and their love of the organization? Maybe, maybe not. I think if there is a significant difference between what JS is willing to offer and what they can get elsewhere, they'll move on, and I don't blame them one bit. I will just say thank you, thank you, thank you, and wish them well. But I also wouldn't be surprised that one or more of them stay at what might be perceived as a 'team friendly' deal. This team is truly an organism, a being, a brotherhood. That's hard to walk away from. But some (most?) will.
One final thought.....it would not surprise me if Jobe gets a better deal ultimately than Woolen. He may be the more appealing of the two. He's very capable, he's tough, he tackles, and he's still getting better. I'd like to put Jobe's brain in Woolen's body.
One more thought.....if K9 becomes too expensive for John, Tyler Allgeier may be the next best option. Physical, decisive runner and 3.1 yards after contact. He and a healthy Charbs (once he's back) would be a very physical backfield, which I know Macdonald values. Atlanta has a lot less cap space available than the Seahawks, so they may not want to cough up too much on a running back, especially when they already have Bijan Robinson.
In a perfect world I'd love to see the one two punch K9 and Chard provided. That may not happen but the advantage, in the Kubiak O system, of an fast explosive runner AND a down hill freight train with serious YAC runner is a combo I hope the next OC may have noticed.
My number one concern for some reason is to keep John Benton around. That was why I was thinking his name for OC originally. As long as he's here I feel good about our o line and the offense overall hinges on that...now how about the overall strategy? I'm guessing we see the same principles and basic scheme if we're staying in house? I really like the offense, my only critique would be integrate some of Grubb's screen attacks...whatever you want to say, we had a mean screen game under his watch.
So, no OC outside interviews yet. I'm waiting by the phone (or would be if I still had a land line). It's a no brainer for the next man up at OC right? With Kubiak's play book, JS's off season talent supply magic, and VERY LITTLE tweakage, Voila! Another SB in the bag! Even a myopic hog could find THAT acorn. I'd want to keep Benton. Benton's Bruisers seemed to get better as the season progressed. I call that a BIG win.
In the question begging department: Will MM continue to call D plays? If so, what's the future career path for a DC with the Hawks? Grounds Keeper?
Learner, also walk thru's 'n full speed practices have a lot of different moving pieces.
Patience and grokking.
Grok,"grokking", is a term coined by American science fiction author Robert A. Heinlein in his 1961 novel Stranger in a Strange Land. It refers to understanding something so thoroughly and intuitively that the observer becomes part of the observed, merging with it.
Re: the OC, of course none of us know what these guys do day to day, or how MM feels about their contributions or future. It will be interesting to see the result and which if any guys leave for Vegas. My armchair life-coaching un-asked-for opinion is that KK is crazy for leaving this job for that one... no talent, bad org, no thanks... and if one of these guys leaves to be his OC... it could be a career-killing move. But some of them will do it because "promotion" + respect for Klint.
I've said here many times that Kupp's worth is more than his stat line... he was our second best receiver, Sam's safety-valve, still would be both next year, etc etc etc. The Rams obv didn't believe in him, but I think we might for one more year, seduced by his good health this year. I could see a possible extension and try to get the hit down this year and move some to 2027. Horton has a chance of making a leap, but I doubt anyone has confidence in his ability to hold up.
There pretty much will never be an offseason where there isn't a debate between "ignore his stats and his age and his salary, he's too important to the team" and the reality of NFL business decisions that never change. Marshawn Lynch, Doug Baldwin, and just last year Tyler Lockett. I've had to stick to my guns on every one of them and they all found out that the NFL is just a business.
Cooper Kupp is not one of the top-50 receivers in the NFL anymore and that's okay. He will only be worse next year because the body is going to do what the body wants to do as we all age. It almost feels gross that I have to wade through the same muck every year to argue for why probable changes are coming because I have nothing against Kupp. I'm not anti-Kupp. I'm just shining a light on the reality of how these situations play out 95% of the time.
Kupp's blocking is not worth having the second-highest salary on the team.
Ok now I have to add this comment, promise it wasn’t a set up lol… just saw Kupp on the kelce and kelce podcast, he said on the Barner TD, the formation came in from the sideline wrong, their alignment was off, and he had to improvise his route on the fly so he and Barner didn’t end up in the same space.
I absolutely agree with that line of reasoning, and recognize that what you are predicting has a good chance of coming to pass. It's a big enough cap hit (even though with an 8M dead cap hit, cutting him plus replacing him is also expensive). But If he is released, I'll be sad for it because I think he actually *is* one of the best 50 receivers in the game and that our run-heavy / defense controlling scheme deflates his stats. It's because he gets open and catches the ball and also blocks. Which all seems basic but last year our #1 receiver (alledgedly) wasn't good at any of those 3. Late stage Tyler is a reasonable comp (he could still kind of get open and catch), but I think Cooper right now is better than Tyler was in his last Seahawks year, by a fair margin. Health is the X factor. Tyler wasn't getting hurt laying down all over the field.
>>"...or maybe Dennison doesn’t want to be an OC again."<<
Hmmm. May make him ideal for being the offense's Head Guy? We can expect we will again lose this year's OC if he's successful, along with his replacement 2 years from now. Wash/rinse/repeat. Who better to assign than the guy who has no intent to being an OC, much less a Head Coach? If anyone can take the pain out of being an OC, it will be JS/MM/Les Frazier and Jody. Make it easier on the old guy. Undoubtedly, we already have an assistant with a photographic memory. A guy the Coach can turn to when an opponent goes down with injury, asking for plays that targets that vacated position and doing so FAST! Hell, A.I. is probably capable, if only as a tool. So we can scratch the demand for the photo-memory... Schneider wants to attract the best of the best, especially among the young up-and-comers. The hard part is built: a Band of Brothers.
Hummm...an A.I. you say. 🤔 I can visualize a (post apocalyptic?) world where optimum game plans against specific opponents can be formulated by an AI...and where all relevant information is entered and analyzed making ACTUALLY playing the game unnecessary. Upside? Would limit injuries to carpal tunnel and eye strain.
An interesting question is, where was Jackson ranked on Kubiak's list. Was he the guy he wanted all along, or the 3rd guy because the first two said no, for one reason or another? Rhetorical question with an unknowable answer, but I do wonder.
I’m concerned about Charbs’ injury. I had a cruciate reconstruction years ago which ended my footy career. My knee was never the same again. I’m sure the surgeons are better these days but it’s still a serious injury to an important joint for a RB.
Has there ever been anyone that’s returned from such an injury and performed to the level they did prior to the injury? I can’t think of one.
Yes, I agree to a point. But I found out I was worried for good reason when I was coaching my son’s football team and joined in. I soo found out that straight lines was ok. But agility stuff was not.
I, believe Adrian Peterson tore his ACL and MCL in late December and then ran for over 2000 yards the next year. Not sure it is the same injury but crazy impressive. A.P. was a different human.
I'm the wrong guy to figure out what a RB, or any other position is worth. The challenge with K9 is that he does best when splitting carries with a 1B RB. I would pay 'market' value for a bell cow RB that would (in all likelihood) carry the ball for well over 1000 yards/year, and has a limited injury history. Other than this year, he's been banged up almost every year, although I think his first year he was pretty healthy.
So if he is best used as a 1A back to limit his carries (which theoretically keeps him healthy) I think the valuation is somewhat below market. What that number is, I have no idea.
I'd love to keep him. He showed more patience in the Super Bowl than in any game I've ever seen him play. There were two plays that I remember where the old K9 pops outside and gets tackled for no gain. But on those two plays he just pauses, waits, and then when the hole opens up he charges through it. I don't remember ever seeing him do that. If that's the new K9, I'd pay pretty well for that.
This is why I wouldn't be a good GM, and why Pete wasn't very good at personnel decisions. You get too attached to players and make emotional decisions instead of business decisions.
All that said, I'm thrilled to have the problems of a Super Bowl Champion!
Really cool video. Great comment as always, well measured.
I think the strategy with the split carries was brilliant. K9 looked his best at the most important part of the season. I see the NFL going more and more this way to increase the chances of longer and more effective running from the RB position. Which, I see running backs becoming more important as more teams move to 2-high safety looks.
Yes, he split touches. But if we compare touches to other positions, even though he split, he still touched the ball the most on the team. For example,
K9: 254 touches
JSN: 126 touches
K9 will maybe cost around $14.5M and JSN will cost around $40M?
With the way this team is built and the way I see the NFL moving, I would happily pay K9 $14.5M to play. If you look at RBs as percent of cap this is probably very cheap compared to 20 years ago. Which makes some since as you said for a split carry back. But still, I think there is an edge there to have the talent like K9 in the back field.
Just my personal opinion no right and wrong answers here either.
I hope that Kenneth Walker III gets a fat paycheck in 2026/7 with a few years on the contract that gives the team the ability to walk away from the contract early without too much pain. That would align with the brotherhood theme, it would acknowledge that K9 earned a lot more yards than an average RB would have gotten, and it would also acknowledge that RBs can lose their edge quickly. Walker has exceptional character and the team should show great character as well. This would align with the identity of great defense, special teams, and running. Then manage his carries in 2026 so he has legs for the postseason again.
Kupp is a bigger challenge. Can JS craft a contract that is a pay cut that doesn’t look like a pay cut? For instance, give a modest guarantee with high incentives and a back loaded contract that isn’t likely to go beyond next season. That approach would honor him with a solid maximum number for the press, but would be an appropriate number for the team.
While JS should keep refreshing the team, this offseason, he needs to keep spirits high for the MOB. That said, I expect Mafe to be signed elsewhere.
I would like to see Shaheed continue to wear blue and green. I think it depends on his goals. Does he feel that he “has a ring”, or does he “want another ring.” If he would rather cash in than play for team glory, his agent will place him elsewhere.
Giving Walker a long-term deal this year would not be surprising, although with "RB franchise tag aggedon" a few years ago (Saquon, Jacobs, Pollard all got the tag) it could be a good idea to put the decision off until 2027.
The franchise tag is 100% cap hit, It also does not provide as much long term security for Walker. That’s the downside for both team and player. Mitch Levy proposed 3 year $33 million contract. For Walker who is still young. If they keep using him as RB1A, and find an RB1B to pair with him, that could keep him going for three more years. The benefit to Walker is a higher guaranteed income. (Say $20 million) The benefit to the team is a much lower cap him and a high quality RB on the roster for 3 years.
We've seen teams and Coaches run a player into the ground. Felt like Pete was doing this with Carson and Penny. MM looks serious in protecting every player from excessive dangers, benching them until 100% ready to return. No doubt, this was a consideration when K9 just announced he wants to play here on a new contract. 5 years here or 1 year elsewhere?
Yeah, K9 has turned into a very good RB1A. Compare his runs the 2nd half of this season with the 1st half, or all of last season. He has really blossomed under Outten’s coaching. I see him getting a 3 year $33-36 million contract. I think Levy is optimistic at $11 million a year.
Exactly my thots, Charley. Charbs did his job by absorbing punishing tackles meant for K9. Or, it could have been the reverse. MM wanted a pounding, punishing Back available in the Playoffs when we got there. That's his System. Not everybody has it. Charbs will be back and play if his body agrees. Loyalty, up and down the System. The Men will want to stick around.
Yes he does, but it doesn’t change who K9 is. He’s a shy, introverted person. He doesn’t like being the center of attention. He likes things familiar. He was MVP of the SB, but instead of going to Disney by himself for the parade they have for the SB MVP, Sam Darnold was there with him every step of the way. He did not want to go if he was going to have to field the reporters alone. Sam was there to step in and deflect. K9 is very familiar and comfortable with Seattle. He knows everyone in the locker room and he can be himself. This is my take only. I haven’t heard anyone else say this, but he is the kind of player who I see taking an Earnest Jones type deal to stay. He might take a touch less than he could get from other teams where he’d have to start over building relationships. I think they get him for $11-12 million a year for three years. It’s a win for the Seahawks as long as they can keep his carries to 17-18 a game. His health was there for 20 games this season.
A well-crafted contract will provide long-term financial security for Walker. Include enough guaranteed money to pay Walker well in 2026. Also write it so the team is free and clear when he loses his edge. If he suffers a serious injury early, he’s not left high and dry, but don’t assume that he’s an MVP player forever.
I think the Seahawks have enough cap space to pay him well short term, but don’t run the well dry in 2027+.
Also, stay with the committee approach. Having a fresh, healthy RB in the playoffs who can get ten yard gains when the blocking fails is priceless. His runs against the Pats was anything but, “I could run through a hole that big.”
Nor should it be. That’s Ken Walker’s responsibility. That being said, $14.5M is pretty much a guarantee of long-term security assuming it isn’t squandered.
All we can do is wait and see and hope that MM and JS choose wisely. I assume that they already know exactly who they want to promote, and that these interviews are just a necessary process. I think this may also be a way for them to assess multiple promotions necessitated by hiring from within. Whatever happens, this decision is probably the most important choice MM/JS make this offseason, and we may not be able to give it a fair assessment until Nov/Dec. Fingers crossed.
Also, Ken Walker winning Super Bowl MVP makes me so happy! He was one of the feel-good MVP possibilities and he got it! It'll be interesting to see how JS plays it, but it's nice to know that the franchise tag no longer seems unreasonable for him.
I don't mean to take up too much space on the forum, but I really believe JS is being guided by angels or some other supernatural force, and pretty much anything he does is totally OK with me. Sign Cooper Kupp to a twenty-year contract/fire Cooper Kupp? Cool! Draft an Edge Rusher/draft a Wide Receiver? Cool! K9? Hey, JS has it under control.
I don't think anybody is going to hit 100% of the time. Maybe what is important is the action plan executed when the original plan does not work out.
From 2024, so no Pete involvement, I would say these additions were busts: Jerome Baker, Tyrel Dodson and Connor Williams. From the coaching side, I would include Ryan Grubb.
I do not get the concept of Kubiak “taking people with him”, both when he left New Orleans and heading to Las Vegas. I assume all staff people are either salaried or under contract. Seattle needs a new OC, and what a great opportunity this is for people under Kubiak. I don’t get going to Las Vegas for anyone other than Kubiak. Who wants to be part of that mess, other than someone at a head coach salary level. Pete was let go making reportedly $8 million per year and some more guaranteed? I assume Kubiak will be a bit less?
I just don’t see the attraction to the Raiders vs. staying with the Seahawks, maybe at a lower salary, but with such a much better, refined organization, and defending Super Bowl Champs, not to mention living in Seattle vs. the HOT desert. PS. Great parade on Wednesday!
So proud to be a 50 year+ fan. Parade organizers deserve a lot of praise!!!! 1 million people plus, 99.9% totally peaceful. This is one of the best cities in the world to live!!!
There's also the Seahawks side of it, in that the new OC might have a different organizational staff structure in mind when he gets the job. There are also personal relationships at play. And just being a human being, someone may feel their best life decision is to move, for whatever reason.
I would bet almost every coach has been fired at some point or five times in their career, so the fickleness of organizational commitment to a staff probably helps coaches realize that they need to still take care of themselves first. How many Eagles fans would have said a year ago "We just won the Super Bowl. Why would you leave with Kellen Moore???" Well, the Eagles just fired their OC.
The only reason I can think of is if a coach sees leaving for LV as a clear next step up the career ladder. Also, they could be tempted to jump on board to help build something from the ground up with a hot new #1 draft pick QB.
I proudly consider myself one of the top ten, perhaps even the top five, least informed people on this or any other forum, but that rarely prevents me from having an opinion, and this is what I think: Jake Peetz for OC! I like his name, and I like his face, so for no more reason than that, I'm letting Andrew Janocko go to L.V., and I wish him well.
My personal favorite for OC is Janocko and has been for a while. I know he’s got the least experience, but age is just a number. Well, maybe not, but Klint Kubiak relinquished play calling duties in the last preseason game for the Hawks this year and Janocko was the guy who got the reigns. Kubiak wants him for OC in LV to work with his rookie QB development, if you believe the Raider chatter. Well, we have a rookie QB that needs development too. (A rookie for one more day, anyway.) Also, if you watch the O-line committee you tube videos, they seem to be very high on Janocko and feel his fingerprints are all over some of the Seahawks successful plays.
I also want Kupp to stay if possible for a reduced number. As for him coaching, he’s a workaholic and loves football and the nuts and bolts of it. He not only attends WR group meetings, but goes to QB meetings as well. He’s had intimate experience with McVey and now Kubiak. The players and the coaches love him. He wants to be in Seattle. I think the reason rich players don’t want to be coaches is because it’s a pay cut and a hell of a lot of work. I don’t think the money is as big a component for someone who loves the game and for who it’s been such a big part of him for so long. For all of us non scholarship players 40 years before the NIL, sometimes you play for the love of the game.
I heard Steve Smith say that he's been approached by teams to become a wide recievers coach, he looked into it, and he just knows that it's a lot of hours and a lot more tedious work than fans can realize. I believe that Steve Smith also has love of the game. I believe most NFL players who are good have love of the game. Walter Jones loves the game, he doesn't want to be an offensive line coach. Steve Hutchinson has love of the game and he helps Seattle pick OL, but he hasn't expressed any desire to be a coach. I just don't presume to know what's in a player's intentions after his career unless he's expressed it. As far as I know, Kupp hasn't expressed that desire, but I've written many times that Kupp's teammates see him as one of the best coaches he's ever had.
Well that's all great and all, but I can't tell you that it's going to happen just because it would be a nice story. Edgar Martinez is a nice story, but not a very common one to go from all-time great hitter to hitting coach. Almost every former player from the Seahawks who has become a coach is someone who was maybe a fringe 53-man roster guy or a short-term starter. Don't we all agree that Doug Baldwin and Richard Sherman loved the game and would be good coaches?
Also, how am I to know or presume that Kupp is a better WRs coach than somebody out there who's been coaching WRs for 20 years and really wants the job and would be great at it? I'm surprised we're even having this conversation because I threw out there that if Kupp wants to have a role on the team, I guess you could offer him a job on the staff. There's no truth behind any of this.
I hear all that, but think with the emotional attachment for players who are on the team and want to be here. I just don’t want to see him walk away, and I’d hate to see him find another team just to play one more year. Maybe he will take the Chenna route. I’d be happy with that. He did contribute when it counted.
And if Kupp retires or goes to another team and never associates with the Seahawks again, I won't question that he still had an emotional attachment to his teammates, just as he has the exact same attachment to Puka Nacua and the Rams.
Agreed. We shouldn’t forget that—like anyone else—a football player can love what they do, form attachments with their co-workers, and yet be unsentimental when it comes to getting the best deal they can get. Most are well aware that they work in a business where there is no emotional attachment to them and that they can be cut loose at any time.
In the end, NFL players are professionals and football is their J-O-B. They’ll take their services where they are most wanted. I can’t say that I was any different in my profession.
A 1-2-3 punch with Allgier while Charbs gets back to fully healthy next year would be insane.
Regarding Cooper Kupp, I'll leave that for JS and Coop to work out. I would just say that it is true he isn't a top 50 receiver if you measure it in catches and yards. But, if you measure it in value to the team, I think he's right up there. Makes big catches, is a coach and mentor on and off the field, is one of the best block WR's in the league, and sets a standard for everyone else and holds them to it. He's a life coach. He's the anti DK Metcalf. Towards the end of the 4th quarter in the Super Bowl, players were coming up to him asking him why he wasn't smiling. His response? 'I'll smile when there are 3 zeros on the scoreboard'. That's Cooper Kupp. Game ain't over guys. Keep playing. What's that worth in $$'s, I have no idea. But he's a gem of a person and player.
Will we get any of these guys on discount because of the brotherhood and their love of the organization? Maybe, maybe not. I think if there is a significant difference between what JS is willing to offer and what they can get elsewhere, they'll move on, and I don't blame them one bit. I will just say thank you, thank you, thank you, and wish them well. But I also wouldn't be surprised that one or more of them stay at what might be perceived as a 'team friendly' deal. This team is truly an organism, a being, a brotherhood. That's hard to walk away from. But some (most?) will.
One final thought.....it would not surprise me if Jobe gets a better deal ultimately than Woolen. He may be the more appealing of the two. He's very capable, he's tough, he tackles, and he's still getting better. I'd like to put Jobe's brain in Woolen's body.
One more thought.....if K9 becomes too expensive for John, Tyler Allgeier may be the next best option. Physical, decisive runner and 3.1 yards after contact. He and a healthy Charbs (once he's back) would be a very physical backfield, which I know Macdonald values. Atlanta has a lot less cap space available than the Seahawks, so they may not want to cough up too much on a running back, especially when they already have Bijan Robinson.
In a perfect world I'd love to see the one two punch K9 and Chard provided. That may not happen but the advantage, in the Kubiak O system, of an fast explosive runner AND a down hill freight train with serious YAC runner is a combo I hope the next OC may have noticed.
I say make it an inside hire and go with Peetz as new OC…for Pete’s sake!
My number one concern for some reason is to keep John Benton around. That was why I was thinking his name for OC originally. As long as he's here I feel good about our o line and the offense overall hinges on that...now how about the overall strategy? I'm guessing we see the same principles and basic scheme if we're staying in house? I really like the offense, my only critique would be integrate some of Grubb's screen attacks...whatever you want to say, we had a mean screen game under his watch.
yes surprised as well he's not on the list but I'm sure there's a reason
Benton is a career O-line coach(since 2006), not an OC type, but he is one hell of an O-line coach and I hope we can keep him!!!
So, no OC outside interviews yet. I'm waiting by the phone (or would be if I still had a land line). It's a no brainer for the next man up at OC right? With Kubiak's play book, JS's off season talent supply magic, and VERY LITTLE tweakage, Voila! Another SB in the bag! Even a myopic hog could find THAT acorn. I'd want to keep Benton. Benton's Bruisers seemed to get better as the season progressed. I call that a BIG win.
In the question begging department: Will MM continue to call D plays? If so, what's the future career path for a DC with the Hawks? Grounds Keeper?
Learner, also walk thru's 'n full speed practices have a lot of different moving pieces.
Patience and grokking.
Grok,"grokking", is a term coined by American science fiction author Robert A. Heinlein in his 1961 novel Stranger in a Strange Land. It refers to understanding something so thoroughly and intuitively that the observer becomes part of the observed, merging with it.
A classic by Heinlein though it's been North of a half century since I read it…and I can't remember where I left my car fob 20 minutes ago…so…
Seems we need a DC like a fish needs a bicycle. We just need a MM mini-me.
Re: the OC, of course none of us know what these guys do day to day, or how MM feels about their contributions or future. It will be interesting to see the result and which if any guys leave for Vegas. My armchair life-coaching un-asked-for opinion is that KK is crazy for leaving this job for that one... no talent, bad org, no thanks... and if one of these guys leaves to be his OC... it could be a career-killing move. But some of them will do it because "promotion" + respect for Klint.
I've said here many times that Kupp's worth is more than his stat line... he was our second best receiver, Sam's safety-valve, still would be both next year, etc etc etc. The Rams obv didn't believe in him, but I think we might for one more year, seduced by his good health this year. I could see a possible extension and try to get the hit down this year and move some to 2027. Horton has a chance of making a leap, but I doubt anyone has confidence in his ability to hold up.
There pretty much will never be an offseason where there isn't a debate between "ignore his stats and his age and his salary, he's too important to the team" and the reality of NFL business decisions that never change. Marshawn Lynch, Doug Baldwin, and just last year Tyler Lockett. I've had to stick to my guns on every one of them and they all found out that the NFL is just a business.
Cooper Kupp is not one of the top-50 receivers in the NFL anymore and that's okay. He will only be worse next year because the body is going to do what the body wants to do as we all age. It almost feels gross that I have to wade through the same muck every year to argue for why probable changes are coming because I have nothing against Kupp. I'm not anti-Kupp. I'm just shining a light on the reality of how these situations play out 95% of the time.
Kupp's blocking is not worth having the second-highest salary on the team.
Ok now I have to add this comment, promise it wasn’t a set up lol… just saw Kupp on the kelce and kelce podcast, he said on the Barner TD, the formation came in from the sideline wrong, their alignment was off, and he had to improvise his route on the fly so he and Barner didn’t end up in the same space.
"because the body is going to do what the body wants to do as we all age."
This Is True.
F that. My body wants to be 19 and I indulge that idea by speaking it. "I am 19" has done me more good than most self help books.
I absolutely agree with that line of reasoning, and recognize that what you are predicting has a good chance of coming to pass. It's a big enough cap hit (even though with an 8M dead cap hit, cutting him plus replacing him is also expensive). But If he is released, I'll be sad for it because I think he actually *is* one of the best 50 receivers in the game and that our run-heavy / defense controlling scheme deflates his stats. It's because he gets open and catches the ball and also blocks. Which all seems basic but last year our #1 receiver (alledgedly) wasn't good at any of those 3. Late stage Tyler is a reasonable comp (he could still kind of get open and catch), but I think Cooper right now is better than Tyler was in his last Seahawks year, by a fair margin. Health is the X factor. Tyler wasn't getting hurt laying down all over the field.
>>"...or maybe Dennison doesn’t want to be an OC again."<<
Hmmm. May make him ideal for being the offense's Head Guy? We can expect we will again lose this year's OC if he's successful, along with his replacement 2 years from now. Wash/rinse/repeat. Who better to assign than the guy who has no intent to being an OC, much less a Head Coach? If anyone can take the pain out of being an OC, it will be JS/MM/Les Frazier and Jody. Make it easier on the old guy. Undoubtedly, we already have an assistant with a photographic memory. A guy the Coach can turn to when an opponent goes down with injury, asking for plays that targets that vacated position and doing so FAST! Hell, A.I. is probably capable, if only as a tool. So we can scratch the demand for the photo-memory... Schneider wants to attract the best of the best, especially among the young up-and-comers. The hard part is built: a Band of Brothers.
Hummm...an A.I. you say. 🤔 I can visualize a (post apocalyptic?) world where optimum game plans against specific opponents can be formulated by an AI...and where all relevant information is entered and analyzed making ACTUALLY playing the game unnecessary. Upside? Would limit injuries to carpal tunnel and eye strain.
Fittingly just as I write this, the Raiders are interviewing Frisman Jackson.
An interesting question is, where was Jackson ranked on Kubiak's list. Was he the guy he wanted all along, or the 3rd guy because the first two said no, for one reason or another? Rhetorical question with an unknowable answer, but I do wonder.
Maybe it’s all part of the “collaborative” plan. Frisman goes, Kupp transitions formally to coach (since that’s what he was doing anyway).
Well. That settles the Kupp question...
Who? Had to look him up. Seahawks receivers coach for anyone as ignorant as me. Probably be a few more of those.
I wrote about who Frisman Jackson is in the article.
Slipped by me.
I’m concerned about Charbs’ injury. I had a cruciate reconstruction years ago which ended my footy career. My knee was never the same again. I’m sure the surgeons are better these days but it’s still a serious injury to an important joint for a RB.
Has there ever been anyone that’s returned from such an injury and performed to the level they did prior to the injury? I can’t think of one.
After my acl surgery, it was as much psychological as physical.
Yes, I agree to a point. But I found out I was worried for good reason when I was coaching my son’s football team and joined in. I soo found out that straight lines was ok. But agility stuff was not.
I, believe Adrian Peterson tore his ACL and MCL in late December and then ran for over 2000 yards the next year. Not sure it is the same injury but crazy impressive. A.P. was a different human.
Yeah, it's going to be a difficult one. Nobody can say for sure how he will do when he returns or when.
How devalued have RBs become!?
That is amazing. What a deal to keep him for $14.5M if that is what they chose to do.
I can still remember the days when the Saints traded everything for Rickie Williams.
The pendulum has swung way too far to "Running Backs Don't Matter" to our benefit.
I'm the wrong guy to figure out what a RB, or any other position is worth. The challenge with K9 is that he does best when splitting carries with a 1B RB. I would pay 'market' value for a bell cow RB that would (in all likelihood) carry the ball for well over 1000 yards/year, and has a limited injury history. Other than this year, he's been banged up almost every year, although I think his first year he was pretty healthy.
So if he is best used as a 1A back to limit his carries (which theoretically keeps him healthy) I think the valuation is somewhat below market. What that number is, I have no idea.
I'd love to keep him. He showed more patience in the Super Bowl than in any game I've ever seen him play. There were two plays that I remember where the old K9 pops outside and gets tackled for no gain. But on those two plays he just pauses, waits, and then when the hole opens up he charges through it. I don't remember ever seeing him do that. If that's the new K9, I'd pay pretty well for that.
This is why I wouldn't be a good GM, and why Pete wasn't very good at personnel decisions. You get too attached to players and make emotional decisions instead of business decisions.
All that said, I'm thrilled to have the problems of a Super Bowl Champion!
If you haven't watched this, you should.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0nQr3TCLYc
The confidence and belief from the Seahawks is really something. It's liked they willed themselves to victory.
Really cool video. Great comment as always, well measured.
I think the strategy with the split carries was brilliant. K9 looked his best at the most important part of the season. I see the NFL going more and more this way to increase the chances of longer and more effective running from the RB position. Which, I see running backs becoming more important as more teams move to 2-high safety looks.
Yes, he split touches. But if we compare touches to other positions, even though he split, he still touched the ball the most on the team. For example,
K9: 254 touches
JSN: 126 touches
K9 will maybe cost around $14.5M and JSN will cost around $40M?
With the way this team is built and the way I see the NFL moving, I would happily pay K9 $14.5M to play. If you look at RBs as percent of cap this is probably very cheap compared to 20 years ago. Which makes some since as you said for a split carry back. But still, I think there is an edge there to have the talent like K9 in the back field.
Just my personal opinion no right and wrong answers here either.
That's a great way to put it because the devaluation of RBs has been great news for the teams that value RBs.
I hope that Kenneth Walker III gets a fat paycheck in 2026/7 with a few years on the contract that gives the team the ability to walk away from the contract early without too much pain. That would align with the brotherhood theme, it would acknowledge that K9 earned a lot more yards than an average RB would have gotten, and it would also acknowledge that RBs can lose their edge quickly. Walker has exceptional character and the team should show great character as well. This would align with the identity of great defense, special teams, and running. Then manage his carries in 2026 so he has legs for the postseason again.
Kupp is a bigger challenge. Can JS craft a contract that is a pay cut that doesn’t look like a pay cut? For instance, give a modest guarantee with high incentives and a back loaded contract that isn’t likely to go beyond next season. That approach would honor him with a solid maximum number for the press, but would be an appropriate number for the team.
While JS should keep refreshing the team, this offseason, he needs to keep spirits high for the MOB. That said, I expect Mafe to be signed elsewhere.
I would like to see Shaheed continue to wear blue and green. I think it depends on his goals. Does he feel that he “has a ring”, or does he “want another ring.” If he would rather cash in than play for team glory, his agent will place him elsewhere.
We will see!
Giving Walker a long-term deal this year would not be surprising, although with "RB franchise tag aggedon" a few years ago (Saquon, Jacobs, Pollard all got the tag) it could be a good idea to put the decision off until 2027.
The franchise tag is 100% cap hit, It also does not provide as much long term security for Walker. That’s the downside for both team and player. Mitch Levy proposed 3 year $33 million contract. For Walker who is still young. If they keep using him as RB1A, and find an RB1B to pair with him, that could keep him going for three more years. The benefit to Walker is a higher guaranteed income. (Say $20 million) The benefit to the team is a much lower cap him and a high quality RB on the roster for 3 years.
We've seen teams and Coaches run a player into the ground. Felt like Pete was doing this with Carson and Penny. MM looks serious in protecting every player from excessive dangers, benching them until 100% ready to return. No doubt, this was a consideration when K9 just announced he wants to play here on a new contract. 5 years here or 1 year elsewhere?
Yeah, K9 has turned into a very good RB1A. Compare his runs the 2nd half of this season with the 1st half, or all of last season. He has really blossomed under Outten’s coaching. I see him getting a 3 year $33-36 million contract. I think Levy is optimistic at $11 million a year.
Plus, if Walker III went elsewhere behind a not-so-good line, his body 'n future playing time might not be the same.
Exactly my thots, Charley. Charbs did his job by absorbing punishing tackles meant for K9. Or, it could have been the reverse. MM wanted a pounding, punishing Back available in the Playoffs when we got there. That's his System. Not everybody has it. Charbs will be back and play if his body agrees. Loyalty, up and down the System. The Men will want to stick around.
Yes, plus he wants to stay, so maybe we can sign him before the start of free agency.
Seems I heard K9 say he has a new Agent.
Yes he does, but it doesn’t change who K9 is. He’s a shy, introverted person. He doesn’t like being the center of attention. He likes things familiar. He was MVP of the SB, but instead of going to Disney by himself for the parade they have for the SB MVP, Sam Darnold was there with him every step of the way. He did not want to go if he was going to have to field the reporters alone. Sam was there to step in and deflect. K9 is very familiar and comfortable with Seattle. He knows everyone in the locker room and he can be himself. This is my take only. I haven’t heard anyone else say this, but he is the kind of player who I see taking an Earnest Jones type deal to stay. He might take a touch less than he could get from other teams where he’d have to start over building relationships. I think they get him for $11-12 million a year for three years. It’s a win for the Seahawks as long as they can keep his carries to 17-18 a game. His health was there for 20 games this season.
Providing long-term security for Walker is not important to the Seahawks.
Perhaps true, but I would not want the coach or GM to actually say that.
A well-crafted contract will provide long-term financial security for Walker. Include enough guaranteed money to pay Walker well in 2026. Also write it so the team is free and clear when he loses his edge. If he suffers a serious injury early, he’s not left high and dry, but don’t assume that he’s an MVP player forever.
I think the Seahawks have enough cap space to pay him well short term, but don’t run the well dry in 2027+.
Also, stay with the committee approach. Having a fresh, healthy RB in the playoffs who can get ten yard gains when the blocking fails is priceless. His runs against the Pats was anything but, “I could run through a hole that big.”
Nor should it be. That’s Ken Walker’s responsibility. That being said, $14.5M is pretty much a guarantee of long-term security assuming it isn’t squandered.
All we can do is wait and see and hope that MM and JS choose wisely. I assume that they already know exactly who they want to promote, and that these interviews are just a necessary process. I think this may also be a way for them to assess multiple promotions necessitated by hiring from within. Whatever happens, this decision is probably the most important choice MM/JS make this offseason, and we may not be able to give it a fair assessment until Nov/Dec. Fingers crossed.
Also, Ken Walker winning Super Bowl MVP makes me so happy! He was one of the feel-good MVP possibilities and he got it! It'll be interesting to see how JS plays it, but it's nice to know that the franchise tag no longer seems unreasonable for him.
I don't mean to take up too much space on the forum, but I really believe JS is being guided by angels or some other supernatural force, and pretty much anything he does is totally OK with me. Sign Cooper Kupp to a twenty-year contract/fire Cooper Kupp? Cool! Draft an Edge Rusher/draft a Wide Receiver? Cool! K9? Hey, JS has it under control.
I would tend to agree. Anyone know of any obvious bust JS has made? Or can any busts be down to Pete?
I don't think anybody is going to hit 100% of the time. Maybe what is important is the action plan executed when the original plan does not work out.
From 2024, so no Pete involvement, I would say these additions were busts: Jerome Baker, Tyrel Dodson and Connor Williams. From the coaching side, I would include Ryan Grubb.
I do not get the concept of Kubiak “taking people with him”, both when he left New Orleans and heading to Las Vegas. I assume all staff people are either salaried or under contract. Seattle needs a new OC, and what a great opportunity this is for people under Kubiak. I don’t get going to Las Vegas for anyone other than Kubiak. Who wants to be part of that mess, other than someone at a head coach salary level. Pete was let go making reportedly $8 million per year and some more guaranteed? I assume Kubiak will be a bit less?
I just don’t see the attraction to the Raiders vs. staying with the Seahawks, maybe at a lower salary, but with such a much better, refined organization, and defending Super Bowl Champs, not to mention living in Seattle vs. the HOT desert. PS. Great parade on Wednesday!
So proud to be a 50 year+ fan. Parade organizers deserve a lot of praise!!!! 1 million people plus, 99.9% totally peaceful. This is one of the best cities in the world to live!!!
There's also the Seahawks side of it, in that the new OC might have a different organizational staff structure in mind when he gets the job. There are also personal relationships at play. And just being a human being, someone may feel their best life decision is to move, for whatever reason.
I would bet almost every coach has been fired at some point or five times in their career, so the fickleness of organizational commitment to a staff probably helps coaches realize that they need to still take care of themselves first. How many Eagles fans would have said a year ago "We just won the Super Bowl. Why would you leave with Kellen Moore???" Well, the Eagles just fired their OC.
The only reason I can think of is if a coach sees leaving for LV as a clear next step up the career ladder. Also, they could be tempted to jump on board to help build something from the ground up with a hot new #1 draft pick QB.
I proudly consider myself one of the top ten, perhaps even the top five, least informed people on this or any other forum, but that rarely prevents me from having an opinion, and this is what I think: Jake Peetz for OC! I like his name, and I like his face, so for no more reason than that, I'm letting Andrew Janocko go to L.V., and I wish him well.
Works for me.
My personal favorite for OC is Janocko and has been for a while. I know he’s got the least experience, but age is just a number. Well, maybe not, but Klint Kubiak relinquished play calling duties in the last preseason game for the Hawks this year and Janocko was the guy who got the reigns. Kubiak wants him for OC in LV to work with his rookie QB development, if you believe the Raider chatter. Well, we have a rookie QB that needs development too. (A rookie for one more day, anyway.) Also, if you watch the O-line committee you tube videos, they seem to be very high on Janocko and feel his fingerprints are all over some of the Seahawks successful plays.
I also want Kupp to stay if possible for a reduced number. As for him coaching, he’s a workaholic and loves football and the nuts and bolts of it. He not only attends WR group meetings, but goes to QB meetings as well. He’s had intimate experience with McVey and now Kubiak. The players and the coaches love him. He wants to be in Seattle. I think the reason rich players don’t want to be coaches is because it’s a pay cut and a hell of a lot of work. I don’t think the money is as big a component for someone who loves the game and for who it’s been such a big part of him for so long. For all of us non scholarship players 40 years before the NIL, sometimes you play for the love of the game.
I heard Steve Smith say that he's been approached by teams to become a wide recievers coach, he looked into it, and he just knows that it's a lot of hours and a lot more tedious work than fans can realize. I believe that Steve Smith also has love of the game. I believe most NFL players who are good have love of the game. Walter Jones loves the game, he doesn't want to be an offensive line coach. Steve Hutchinson has love of the game and he helps Seattle pick OL, but he hasn't expressed any desire to be a coach. I just don't presume to know what's in a player's intentions after his career unless he's expressed it. As far as I know, Kupp hasn't expressed that desire, but I've written many times that Kupp's teammates see him as one of the best coaches he's ever had.
Well that's all great and all, but I can't tell you that it's going to happen just because it would be a nice story. Edgar Martinez is a nice story, but not a very common one to go from all-time great hitter to hitting coach. Almost every former player from the Seahawks who has become a coach is someone who was maybe a fringe 53-man roster guy or a short-term starter. Don't we all agree that Doug Baldwin and Richard Sherman loved the game and would be good coaches?
Also, how am I to know or presume that Kupp is a better WRs coach than somebody out there who's been coaching WRs for 20 years and really wants the job and would be great at it? I'm surprised we're even having this conversation because I threw out there that if Kupp wants to have a role on the team, I guess you could offer him a job on the staff. There's no truth behind any of this.
Jason Taylor is coaching DLine for the University of Miami. And, yes, the uniquity of that situation kinda proves the point.
I hear all that, but think with the emotional attachment for players who are on the team and want to be here. I just don’t want to see him walk away, and I’d hate to see him find another team just to play one more year. Maybe he will take the Chenna route. I’d be happy with that. He did contribute when it counted.
And if Kupp retires or goes to another team and never associates with the Seahawks again, I won't question that he still had an emotional attachment to his teammates, just as he has the exact same attachment to Puka Nacua and the Rams.
Agreed. We shouldn’t forget that—like anyone else—a football player can love what they do, form attachments with their co-workers, and yet be unsentimental when it comes to getting the best deal they can get. Most are well aware that they work in a business where there is no emotional attachment to them and that they can be cut loose at any time.
In the end, NFL players are professionals and football is their J-O-B. They’ll take their services where they are most wanted. I can’t say that I was any different in my profession.