As I have said before the most resigned players in the Whole NFL are O-linemen. WHY? because when you get good ones and it's obvious that isn't that easy you want to keep them, for two reasons. It truly takes some time for an O-line to become really good. They have to pay together for a while and get so they just know what the guy next to him is going to do. Plus, they (the O-line) must have good coaching. The best O-line coach used to reside in New England until he retired, and what happened after that? Brady left and they have just not been any good. The O-line IMHO is more important than all the skill payers for without them playing at least decently those other players cannot consistently ball out or make a consistent difference.
Loved the breakdown list of so many OLine players then you added “Jason Peters”. Cracked up on that last line. Dude waiting for his son to get drafted in the NFL? :-))
I used to think being a GM of a team was something like assembling a jigsaw puzzle. Now I think it’s assembling a 3-D jigsaw. The GM must consider a player’s skill set relative to other similar players, fit for a given scheme, health, attitude, cost, etc. for about 90 players to start camp. But they don’t just do it for this season, they also have to consider the impact of any signing on future seasons. No wonder they make the big bucks!
I’ll be stunned if Cross isn’t extended, as he seems competent at one of the preeminent positions, but anything can happen between now and decision time.
Thankfully, I just have to watch and cheer, or shout at, the team while the experts do that heavy lifting.
PFF has Cross as a highly rated tackle. I believe JS did a good job with drafting & developing him, and Abe has good upside despite the injuries. Give him more time to draft & develop for the current staff. We'll be OKAY.
I wrote the other day of the value of paying the OL as a 5 or 6 man team… Total cost divided by 5 or 6…. That would truly make the OL a team dependent on one another.. JUST LIKE THE GAMES!!!
I have noticed Rost roasting the Seahawks for “not drafting well” on the OL, but I wonder how different all the ‘hot takes’ would be if Lucas had not been put on the shelf? Or should JS have known Lucas was going to be injured?
During their rookie seasons almost everyone giving an opinion on JS and the future of the Seahawks OL was saying “wow, the Seahawks got their bookend OTs in one draft! JS is FIRE!”
Even now, if Lucas comes back and plays well, the OL starts to look completely different. Is there still an issue at G? Yes, but the third round rookie (Haynes) might be “the guy” next year with a whole offseason to prepare.
For me it’s kind like the McDowell situation where, had he not been injured in an ATV accident before ever getting to camp, the DL evolution would have been totally different. The Seahawks may already have 4/5 of a good OL in 2025 on the roster.
JS and his scouts and whoever else is involved in judging people on the O-line as well as their drafting habits have a record to follow and it just isn't very good at all!
This is a pretty discouraging and cynical post, at least on the Cross issue. Schneider shouldn't be doing ANYTHING AT ALL because he "needs a win." His sole job is to operate the team in the best interests of the team, long and short term. Not to get personal "wins." And certainly not to overpay a player to vindicate a drafting decision made years ago.
Watching the above TopTen video on Spoon, I see Coach Mac greenlighting risky play for turnovers. Rather than tie the runner up, as he is very good at doing, we see Spoon reach over the left side and try to knock the ball loose, sacrificing a TFL for potentially bigger things. Just because there was no gang-tackling in the follow-up is not reason for me to take shots at Spoon. Taking risks this year is his #1 assignment. It just hasn't showed positive results. Yet. Get back to intense gang tackling and the rest will follow. I think Ernest Jones was brought in specifically to bolster this. The man moves to the ball instinctively, unlike what I see Bryant doing in the same video. Dodson is best known over on the weak side and he's now back there. Big changes/little time.
I cannot say I am as cynical as you are in these regards. Cross deserves to be given an extension based upon his play. To think JS is thinking about his job security does not compute to me.
And also suggests something that could happen IF this season goes the wrong way. At what point does JS start making decisions for what is best for his own job security and not what is best for the team?
Many people see this as a rebuild opportunity for the Hawks with a new coach ... But can JS hold onto his job hold through a downturn? If not, I would expect to see more Jones type trades and wouldn't expect to see a tear down this offseason.
To be clear, I don't think JS is there yet or done anything yet that doesn't have the team in its best interest. However, I am just saying that the divide between Hawks fans that want a tear down/rebuild will grow if the team keeps losing compared to what JS sees that the team is ready to compete now (and next year). It would make for an interesting offseason, but I have a hard time seeing JS do a complete tear down in year 15 of being the GM.
Lot riding on the line the rest of the year! Starting Sunday ... First McVay vs Macdonald showdown! Looking forward to it
There seems to be near universal opinion in the NFL that colleges aren’t developing O linemen in a way that benefits the NFL (not that colleges care). So when you get a decent one, you’d better keep him.
After the 2015 season, PCJS prioritized keeping the defense together over resigning Russell Okung. His replacement, Bradley Sowell, was so bad that Carroll eventually turned to rookie George Fant, whose first sport in college was basketball. The results were predictable. Having learned a lesson,* Carroll opened the 2017 season with second-year swingman Rees Odhiambo at LT. On October 30, a desperate Schneider traded Jeremy Lane, a #2, and a #5 to Houston for veteran star LT Duane Browne (who was available only because he had tired of playing for racist owner Bob McNair and was willing to take the financial hit of holding out). Browne held down the LT spot through 2021, and Schneider drafted Charles Cross in 2022.
I don’t care what Schneider’s motivations for extending Cross might be. Cross is a capable LT, LTs don’t grow on trees, and it’s not a position that a GM can easily fill. Injuries aside, there’s no credible story for *not* retaining Cross when the time comes.
Okung was also drafted before the 2011 CBA that added fifth-year options to rookie contracts, and he was also acting as his own agent which JS'PC found difficult to negotiate with. If Russell Okung was drafted in 2022, the situation would be the same as I describe for Cross, they've got similarities.
Speaking for myself, I have no use for Schneider having difficulty negotiating with a player representing himself. He’s a C Suite-level senior executive, for Pete (Carroll)’s sake. Plus, he didn’t even try, all while knowing that Bradley F. Sowell and J’Marcus F. Webb might well be his options.
Won’t the timing of the extension have more to do with cap management than anything else? Cross is a good LT and draft ing one that works out is a great. Of course you hang onto guys like that.
If anything, future cap management would benefit from waiting to extend Cross until it is absolutely necessary. I'm sure you and I both agree that what I wrote and what you wrote could both apply.
This is my thought as well. JS has to assume, at this point, that we're gonna extend all these guys and have cap scenarios mapped out for 2-5 years. Making a statement is all well and good, but I think it'll be a secondary consideration to fitting Cross' extension into the cap plan, rather than the primary reason to extend him sooner than necessary.
Also, and I think this is something 95%+ of us agree on, you have to retain Cross. There is only one cap scenario on John's hard-drive (or is it in John's cloud?) that doesn't include Cross, but it's just an exercise and not something he seriously considers.
Right now we have, at best, 1.5 NFL-quality starters on our OL. Maybe Lucas comes back, maybe he doesn't, looks like we'll have an idea in three weeks. Maybe Williams settles down (no idea what happened last game...), maybe not. But it seems malpractice, at best, not to do what's necessary to keep the one solid asset we have. If the cap is an issue, DK can go. We can find another deep threat in the draft. Colleges seem good at training for that position just now. Doubtful we'll find a starting LT in the draft, and doubtful we'll pay the price of getting one in free agency. (OK. I might have made my mind up on DK and keep finding excuses to jettison him. Not fair, don't care.)
As I have said before the most resigned players in the Whole NFL are O-linemen. WHY? because when you get good ones and it's obvious that isn't that easy you want to keep them, for two reasons. It truly takes some time for an O-line to become really good. They have to pay together for a while and get so they just know what the guy next to him is going to do. Plus, they (the O-line) must have good coaching. The best O-line coach used to reside in New England until he retired, and what happened after that? Brady left and they have just not been any good. The O-line IMHO is more important than all the skill payers for without them playing at least decently those other players cannot consistently ball out or make a consistent difference.
Loved the breakdown list of so many OLine players then you added “Jason Peters”. Cracked up on that last line. Dude waiting for his son to get drafted in the NFL? :-))
I used to think being a GM of a team was something like assembling a jigsaw puzzle. Now I think it’s assembling a 3-D jigsaw. The GM must consider a player’s skill set relative to other similar players, fit for a given scheme, health, attitude, cost, etc. for about 90 players to start camp. But they don’t just do it for this season, they also have to consider the impact of any signing on future seasons. No wonder they make the big bucks!
I’ll be stunned if Cross isn’t extended, as he seems competent at one of the preeminent positions, but anything can happen between now and decision time.
Thankfully, I just have to watch and cheer, or shout at, the team while the experts do that heavy lifting.
PFF has Cross as a highly rated tackle. I believe JS did a good job with drafting & developing him, and Abe has good upside despite the injuries. Give him more time to draft & develop for the current staff. We'll be OKAY.
I wrote the other day of the value of paying the OL as a 5 or 6 man team… Total cost divided by 5 or 6…. That would truly make the OL a team dependent on one another.. JUST LIKE THE GAMES!!!
I have noticed Rost roasting the Seahawks for “not drafting well” on the OL, but I wonder how different all the ‘hot takes’ would be if Lucas had not been put on the shelf? Or should JS have known Lucas was going to be injured?
During their rookie seasons almost everyone giving an opinion on JS and the future of the Seahawks OL was saying “wow, the Seahawks got their bookend OTs in one draft! JS is FIRE!”
Even now, if Lucas comes back and plays well, the OL starts to look completely different. Is there still an issue at G? Yes, but the third round rookie (Haynes) might be “the guy” next year with a whole offseason to prepare.
For me it’s kind like the McDowell situation where, had he not been injured in an ATV accident before ever getting to camp, the DL evolution would have been totally different. The Seahawks may already have 4/5 of a good OL in 2025 on the roster.
JS and his scouts and whoever else is involved in judging people on the O-line as well as their drafting habits have a record to follow and it just isn't very good at all!
This is a pretty discouraging and cynical post, at least on the Cross issue. Schneider shouldn't be doing ANYTHING AT ALL because he "needs a win." His sole job is to operate the team in the best interests of the team, long and short term. Not to get personal "wins." And certainly not to overpay a player to vindicate a drafting decision made years ago.
Watching the above TopTen video on Spoon, I see Coach Mac greenlighting risky play for turnovers. Rather than tie the runner up, as he is very good at doing, we see Spoon reach over the left side and try to knock the ball loose, sacrificing a TFL for potentially bigger things. Just because there was no gang-tackling in the follow-up is not reason for me to take shots at Spoon. Taking risks this year is his #1 assignment. It just hasn't showed positive results. Yet. Get back to intense gang tackling and the rest will follow. I think Ernest Jones was brought in specifically to bolster this. The man moves to the ball instinctively, unlike what I see Bryant doing in the same video. Dodson is best known over on the weak side and he's now back there. Big changes/little time.
I think usually the guys who punch the ball out do it when they either have the guy under wraps or another guy does. I don't like it in this instance.
Bryant actually has a good record of causing fumbles. I remember Vernon Maxwell was also good at it, and Earl was pretty good too...
Vernon Maxwell was a good 3-point shooter and caused a few turnovers, but mostly in the backcourt. Byron Maxwell, on the other hand…
lol
I cannot say I am as cynical as you are in these regards. Cross deserves to be given an extension based upon his play. To think JS is thinking about his job security does not compute to me.
I think this article is right on the money.
And also suggests something that could happen IF this season goes the wrong way. At what point does JS start making decisions for what is best for his own job security and not what is best for the team?
Many people see this as a rebuild opportunity for the Hawks with a new coach ... But can JS hold onto his job hold through a downturn? If not, I would expect to see more Jones type trades and wouldn't expect to see a tear down this offseason.
To be clear, I don't think JS is there yet or done anything yet that doesn't have the team in its best interest. However, I am just saying that the divide between Hawks fans that want a tear down/rebuild will grow if the team keeps losing compared to what JS sees that the team is ready to compete now (and next year). It would make for an interesting offseason, but I have a hard time seeing JS do a complete tear down in year 15 of being the GM.
Lot riding on the line the rest of the year! Starting Sunday ... First McVay vs Macdonald showdown! Looking forward to it
There seems to be near universal opinion in the NFL that colleges aren’t developing O linemen in a way that benefits the NFL (not that colleges care). So when you get a decent one, you’d better keep him.
After the 2015 season, PCJS prioritized keeping the defense together over resigning Russell Okung. His replacement, Bradley Sowell, was so bad that Carroll eventually turned to rookie George Fant, whose first sport in college was basketball. The results were predictable. Having learned a lesson,* Carroll opened the 2017 season with second-year swingman Rees Odhiambo at LT. On October 30, a desperate Schneider traded Jeremy Lane, a #2, and a #5 to Houston for veteran star LT Duane Browne (who was available only because he had tired of playing for racist owner Bob McNair and was willing to take the financial hit of holding out). Browne held down the LT spot through 2021, and Schneider drafted Charles Cross in 2022.
I don’t care what Schneider’s motivations for extending Cross might be. Cross is a capable LT, LTs don’t grow on trees, and it’s not a position that a GM can easily fill. Injuries aside, there’s no credible story for *not* retaining Cross when the time comes.
* Sarcasm intended.
Okung was also drafted before the 2011 CBA that added fifth-year options to rookie contracts, and he was also acting as his own agent which JS'PC found difficult to negotiate with. If Russell Okung was drafted in 2022, the situation would be the same as I describe for Cross, they've got similarities.
Speaking for myself, I have no use for Schneider having difficulty negotiating with a player representing himself. He’s a C Suite-level senior executive, for Pete (Carroll)’s sake. Plus, he didn’t even try, all while knowing that Bradley F. Sowell and J’Marcus F. Webb might well be his options.
Won’t the timing of the extension have more to do with cap management than anything else? Cross is a good LT and draft ing one that works out is a great. Of course you hang onto guys like that.
If anything, future cap management would benefit from waiting to extend Cross until it is absolutely necessary. I'm sure you and I both agree that what I wrote and what you wrote could both apply.
This is my thought as well. JS has to assume, at this point, that we're gonna extend all these guys and have cap scenarios mapped out for 2-5 years. Making a statement is all well and good, but I think it'll be a secondary consideration to fitting Cross' extension into the cap plan, rather than the primary reason to extend him sooner than necessary.
Also, and I think this is something 95%+ of us agree on, you have to retain Cross. There is only one cap scenario on John's hard-drive (or is it in John's cloud?) that doesn't include Cross, but it's just an exercise and not something he seriously considers.
Right now we have, at best, 1.5 NFL-quality starters on our OL. Maybe Lucas comes back, maybe he doesn't, looks like we'll have an idea in three weeks. Maybe Williams settles down (no idea what happened last game...), maybe not. But it seems malpractice, at best, not to do what's necessary to keep the one solid asset we have. If the cap is an issue, DK can go. We can find another deep threat in the draft. Colleges seem good at training for that position just now. Doubtful we'll find a starting LT in the draft, and doubtful we'll pay the price of getting one in free agency. (OK. I might have made my mind up on DK and keep finding excuses to jettison him. Not fair, don't care.)