Came to post that myself. Huff came with Grubb but Huff appears to have shown his meddle to Coach Mac. We may rip Oline but this implies that Coach Mac sees Huff was doing a lot of work with a bunch of young guys.
Trying to find quote. Coach Mac separated Huff from Grubb but agreed it left open possibility. He seemed more committal to Huff than Geno but were similar in wording. Wish I saved the quote.
If I was chosen as OC, I would like to pick my own OL coach - being well-versed in my philosophy… AND my OC success would depend on as such… NEW OC should be able to hire his own Offensive assistants…
What if the new OC has been working with the O-line coach for 11 months? Peetz the current passing game coordinator for the Seahawks will likely be given some thought by JS and MM. He was a McVey guy before coming to Seattle
From Condotta: Mike Macdonald, on radio show when asked if he expects Geno Smith to return as QB in 2025, says: "Got no reason to say no, so I guess yeah.''
I'm not going to read into this because the coach isn't going to break that the Seahawks are cutting Geno Smith or even that they are keeping Geno Smith. But feel free to speculate on those 10 words.
I bet this gets covered in pre-hire interviews, as well as assessment of "compatible O strategy vision" since it sounds like incompatible visions contributed to Grubb's firing. Can't risk 2 in-a-row OC misfires.
I'm not worried about Geno either way, but if they asked me "can you work with the current O line?", I'd be shown the door after I fell down laughing.
I fully agree with you Mike. I hope this us just the start of things to come. If isn't, as Joe has already mentioned, JS staying with the seahawks past next year could be very dependent on what he does between now and the start if the season. We simply cannot have more mediocrity.
"Mostly Lurking" below, gives O stats summary of '23 vs. '24 - Thanks!
I interpret them as saying Grubb did better than '23 strictly by those number comparisons.
I'll give him subjective attaboys because:
a. Plays got in on time w/less confusion than w/Waldron-PC
b. Right of Cross, the '24 O line was bad, much worse than '23.
c. Grubb got no mid-season "difference-maker" reinforcements for an O line that was at least as bad as the pre-Earnest Jones LB's. Hawk D couldn't stop the run, heading towards 7 & 10, MM gifts himself w/difference-maker Earnest Jones & shed 2 previous starters.
Hawk O couldn't run block. If Grubb were gifted a difference maker LG & Center, Hawks would have had 1/2 a run game, way better than the nonexistent run block & lousy pass block capability of '24 O line.
A link below from Ruthanne Wong suggests Grubb didn't take MM guidance/feedback as well as he could have. Firing Grubb for resisting mgt. guidance (aka creative differences?) is easier for me to believe than Grubb fired for lack of producing a 50/50 run-pass O, with the O line he inherited.
No big deal - Going into 2025 (& probably '26), I'm still living in "Trust the Process" land.
I'm ok with whatever JS/MM do because I believe they're working on the mix to return Hawks into a tier 1 team. That's not an easy task with all the non-top tier talent & upcoming '25 holes and a 4th already burnt on E Jones (whether he signs or not).
Feels like there's gonna be a lot of moving pieces. Exciting, but "Our mileage may vary".
When MM was hired he talked a lot about building the “spine” of the team. I wonder if this is at all foreshadowing for our offseason moves. Good thing we SSJ to keep us informed and thoughtful!
MM also talks a lot about adapting and having a change/growth mindset. One of Grubbs last interviews he said he adjusted almost nothing this year - I wonder if this was the difference in philosophy that we started to see throughout the season. We didn’t adjust in game and some play calls were down right astonishing (even to a spectator like me). I will miss some of the creativity: screen passes finally working, two planned laterals with JSN this year (more of this please!!) and Murphy on a fair run attempt in the red zone.
I would be curious to see if Josh McDaniels is interested. He fits the "previous failure as HC" mold someone else mentioned that could keep him in place longer than a rising "star". He was also known for being innovative, yet balanced, as a playcaller for Brady. His failures as Broncos and Raiders HC didn't come with playcalling criticisms. He has plenty of experience calling plays in the NFL, and I don't think MM and JS will be looking for another college guy to promote.
(If accurate) this article reveals Seahawk leadership held Grubb accountable for the Giants loss due to Grubb’s inflexible reliance on passing instead of rushing. It sounds as though Grubb’s fate was sealed when he failed to adjust his game plans despite clear direction from Macdonald.
Can’t have that. Macdonald has no option but to move on, given that scenario.
Just hope we can keep that screen game going. It was the first season in over a decade we could run several variations of the screen effectively. I wonder if it's play-calling? I sometimes found myself questioning the play-call itself. Kinda seems like a political move, but no real love-lost here. Maybe JS will look into the high school ranks next...I'll brush up the resume. Gonna be a very entertaining off-season.
Somebody, anybody please tell me ( lie to me if you have to ) if Grubb or Geno.led the entire NFL in red zone interceptions. This only makes sense if Geno’s on the outs, too..
I hope the new OC gets to choose his own QB and gets a major over haul of the sieve
we laughingly called an interior offensive line.
As long as Grubb is getting fired, how about the genius special teams coach Harbaugh?
Apparently, somebody had to take the fall for Geno’s turnovers and it was OC Grubb. I think he should have had another year to implement his scheme with some better players. I just hope the new OC isn't Waldron!
This decision was made long ago. That’s why it happened so quickly. Alignment is critical between the HC and the coaching staff. Where mis-alignment occurs, it needs to get resolved. Huff is not out, but also not in. That’s still being evaluated and will remain in flux until the OC is named.
I think Grubb's tendency to be nontraditional with his offense drove a lot of bad press from traditionalists.
I'm actually really disappointed in this decision we were better in almost every way on offense this year so here's some offensive numbers to drive that home.
would be interesting to see same vs. above .500 teams but I'm too lazy. I mean if these guys are trying to reestablish Hawks as 1st tier team that's the test...
So Grubb didn't walk on water but did better in most listed categories.
'23 was 17 turnovers (+2 ratio) re 24 in '24 (-6 ratio) (3 were special teams???) - dunno how significant in '23 but may have lost a game or 2 in '24
But Grubb did this with a worse than '23 O line, 1st year in NFL for a team nowhere near ready to win NFC, his 1st year in NFL.
If as Ruthanne's link above suggests, Grubb resisted guidance from MM, he's fired for not knowing how to read an org chart.
Otherwise, seems like Grubb had the potential to take a '24 lesson learned and improve in '25.
I said before that I thought Grubb had some innovative play designs and ran the best screen game we’ve seen in years. Other aspects of his offense struggled making the leap to the NFL, but it’s not like they were the worst offense in the league. I would have given him another season to adjust, but I’m not losing sleep over this. If he and MM didn’t mesh then best to make a change the HC wants.
I personally love a great defense paired with a balanced, ball control offense, so if that’s MM’s plan I’m excited to see it! It worked great for PC and got our only SB win and I hope it brings a 2nd!
I’m disappointed but not surprised. I felt that Grubb was creative and had an open mind and that he might really improve after an offseason of reflection.
Politically, it makes sense. If you need someone to take the blame, Grubb had the least leverage. JS gets another chance. MM proved himself as capable. Geno might not be a superstar, but there are few people on the planet who are available, affordable, and better. That leaves Grubb. There are many more good OCs available than elite QBs.
I feel for Grubb, but there have got to be a ton of college teams who would like to hire him, based on his experience.
To me, this says a whole lot. And much more about the OL than about Grubb.
I really don't want to believe this was a mostly political decision, to pacify the fan base or to shift blame from those acquiring or coaching the talent.
Huff could've been a sacrifice too. It's hard to say our offensive struggles running the ball weren't driven by BAD offensive line play. I'd love to see how we ranked in rushing yards before contact
Jumping from college at the same position is tough. Pete Carroll went from DC in college to six years as a DB coach before anyone thought he was ready to be a DC in the pros.
Well i liked Grubb, he cannot help a qb who does not complete red zone passes and throws interceptions. Keeping Huff is somewhat suprising.
macdonald wants his own guy, i understand that, but this decision is one that is successful or one that could cost his job. We will see.
I have always liked Schneider but starting to question some of his picks, look at the rams, one year and they have great D line, we have spent alot of picks with little success.
I still maintain your not winning a Superbowl with Geno, but looks like there sticking with him. Why did we not let howell play Sunday to see what we have
It could be they are keeping him for now. Just so they have a guy in place. If the new offensive coordinator wants a specific person for the offensive line coach role, they probably would let him make the change.
Macdonald confirms that OL Scott Huff is not going anywhere
Came to post that myself. Huff came with Grubb but Huff appears to have shown his meddle to Coach Mac. We may rip Oline but this implies that Coach Mac sees Huff was doing a lot of work with a bunch of young guys.
I didn't get that at all. I got that it's an open question. I'm pretty sure that if the new OC has somebody else he loves, Huff will be gone.
Trying to find quote. Coach Mac separated Huff from Grubb but agreed it left open possibility. He seemed more committal to Huff than Geno but were similar in wording. Wish I saved the quote.
agree, On the mid morning take I heard, Huff was open question - ie he's still here. Also re Geno, it was, "...he's under contract..."
My apologies, you could be right.
If I was chosen as OC, I would like to pick my own OL coach - being well-versed in my philosophy… AND my OC success would depend on as such… NEW OC should be able to hire his own Offensive assistants…
I’m with you, but any number of NFL teams don’t see it that way.
What if the new OC has been working with the O-line coach for 11 months? Peetz the current passing game coordinator for the Seahawks will likely be given some thought by JS and MM. He was a McVey guy before coming to Seattle
From Condotta: Mike Macdonald, on radio show when asked if he expects Geno Smith to return as QB in 2025, says: "Got no reason to say no, so I guess yeah.''
I'm not going to read into this because the coach isn't going to break that the Seahawks are cutting Geno Smith or even that they are keeping Geno Smith. But feel free to speculate on those 10 words.
I.e., “It’s out of my hands.”
Yeah. Think you nailed this one ... Just watched the video clip.
Yeah ... This is not exactly a ringing endorsement (about 18:40 mark). But probably shouldn't read too much into it either:
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/category/podcast_player/?a=e86fd769-1716-405f-9c43-b25320306c7b&n=The+Mike+Macdonald+Show+on+Seattle+Sports&i=1684
Geno's future very much in flux. Keep the popcorn handy, NFL entertainment machine keeps humming.
If they get their preferred OC in the room and he says, “I don’t want Geno as my QB” that will be the moment the decision gets made.
I bet this gets covered in pre-hire interviews, as well as assessment of "compatible O strategy vision" since it sounds like incompatible visions contributed to Grubb's firing. Can't risk 2 in-a-row OC misfires.
I'm not worried about Geno either way, but if they asked me "can you work with the current O line?", I'd be shown the door after I fell down laughing.
OK I'll speculate! 🫣
Think there are several names that are going to require some serious renegotiations or else guys will be left to explore the market:
- Geno
- DK
- Ernest Jones
- Tyler Lockett (although his contract may be beyond renegotiability)
- Uchenna
Geno is the lightning rod, but I don't think MacDonald can answer any differently for any of the above guys
I fully agree with you Mike. I hope this us just the start of things to come. If isn't, as Joe has already mentioned, JS staying with the seahawks past next year could be very dependent on what he does between now and the start if the season. We simply cannot have more mediocrity.
Not really a vote of confidence though. Most defensive coaches hate turnovers unless they create them lol
"Mostly Lurking" below, gives O stats summary of '23 vs. '24 - Thanks!
I interpret them as saying Grubb did better than '23 strictly by those number comparisons.
I'll give him subjective attaboys because:
a. Plays got in on time w/less confusion than w/Waldron-PC
b. Right of Cross, the '24 O line was bad, much worse than '23.
c. Grubb got no mid-season "difference-maker" reinforcements for an O line that was at least as bad as the pre-Earnest Jones LB's. Hawk D couldn't stop the run, heading towards 7 & 10, MM gifts himself w/difference-maker Earnest Jones & shed 2 previous starters.
Hawk O couldn't run block. If Grubb were gifted a difference maker LG & Center, Hawks would have had 1/2 a run game, way better than the nonexistent run block & lousy pass block capability of '24 O line.
A link below from Ruthanne Wong suggests Grubb didn't take MM guidance/feedback as well as he could have. Firing Grubb for resisting mgt. guidance (aka creative differences?) is easier for me to believe than Grubb fired for lack of producing a 50/50 run-pass O, with the O line he inherited.
No big deal - Going into 2025 (& probably '26), I'm still living in "Trust the Process" land.
I'm ok with whatever JS/MM do because I believe they're working on the mix to return Hawks into a tier 1 team. That's not an easy task with all the non-top tier talent & upcoming '25 holes and a 4th already burnt on E Jones (whether he signs or not).
Feels like there's gonna be a lot of moving pieces. Exciting, but "Our mileage may vary".
When MM was hired he talked a lot about building the “spine” of the team. I wonder if this is at all foreshadowing for our offseason moves. Good thing we SSJ to keep us informed and thoughtful!
MM also talks a lot about adapting and having a change/growth mindset. One of Grubbs last interviews he said he adjusted almost nothing this year - I wonder if this was the difference in philosophy that we started to see throughout the season. We didn’t adjust in game and some play calls were down right astonishing (even to a spectator like me). I will miss some of the creativity: screen passes finally working, two planned laterals with JSN this year (more of this please!!) and Murphy on a fair run attempt in the red zone.
Wow. In the end he should have gone to Alabama. There he might have gone more under the radar. Okay Coach Mike and JS. It's yer show.
"yer show" - I agree.
MM/JS threw down the gauntlet on themselves w/Grubb not worth a 2nd year.
Hope they get the right one this time.
I would be curious to see if Josh McDaniels is interested. He fits the "previous failure as HC" mold someone else mentioned that could keep him in place longer than a rising "star". He was also known for being innovative, yet balanced, as a playcaller for Brady. His failures as Broncos and Raiders HC didn't come with playcalling criticisms. He has plenty of experience calling plays in the NFL, and I don't think MM and JS will be looking for another college guy to promote.
“Disillusioned and Incompatible” Corbin Smith writes the first “inside the decision” article about the decision to fire Ryan Grubb. https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/seahawks-news/disillusioned-and-incompatible-inside-seahawks-decision-to-fire-ryan-grubb
thanks RW. Personality conflict firing easier to believe than "ya didn't make top-10 O".
(If accurate) this article reveals Seahawk leadership held Grubb accountable for the Giants loss due to Grubb’s inflexible reliance on passing instead of rushing. It sounds as though Grubb’s fate was sealed when he failed to adjust his game plans despite clear direction from Macdonald.
Can’t have that. Macdonald has no option but to move on, given that scenario.
Just hope we can keep that screen game going. It was the first season in over a decade we could run several variations of the screen effectively. I wonder if it's play-calling? I sometimes found myself questioning the play-call itself. Kinda seems like a political move, but no real love-lost here. Maybe JS will look into the high school ranks next...I'll brush up the resume. Gonna be a very entertaining off-season.
I did see maybe the 1st successful Hawk screens since the pre-Pete era. ;-)
I liked the 2-in-a-row screens Rams ran on Hawks.
Both created 4 Ram lead blockers vs. 3 Hawk defenders - beautiful.
McVay - where creativity + execution meet!
Three things that should be attractive to a new OC:
1. The head coach is a defensive guy and wants you to run this offense.
2. Enough talent to build around, but not so much that you can't impact team building.
3. A GM that is banking on his hires to succeed and can't fire two OCs in two years and expect to keep his seat from getting really hot.
Somebody, anybody please tell me ( lie to me if you have to ) if Grubb or Geno.led the entire NFL in red zone interceptions. This only makes sense if Geno’s on the outs, too..
I hope the new OC gets to choose his own QB and gets a major over haul of the sieve
we laughingly called an interior offensive line.
As long as Grubb is getting fired, how about the genius special teams coach Harbaugh?
Apparently, somebody had to take the fall for Geno’s turnovers and it was OC Grubb. I think he should have had another year to implement his scheme with some better players. I just hope the new OC isn't Waldron!
This decision was made long ago. That’s why it happened so quickly. Alignment is critical between the HC and the coaching staff. Where mis-alignment occurs, it needs to get resolved. Huff is not out, but also not in. That’s still being evaluated and will remain in flux until the OC is named.
The first of many decisions.
Hasty decision. Give Ryan Grubb an improved offensive line then see what happens.
I still say "Remove Jon Schneider and add offensive linemen."
I wonder (if they release Geno) what their QB replacement plan is.
I think Grubb's tendency to be nontraditional with his offense drove a lot of bad press from traditionalists.
I'm actually really disappointed in this decision we were better in almost every way on offense this year so here's some offensive numbers to drive that home.
Last year vs this year '23 vs '24:
Time of possession 32nd -> 28th
Points per game 17th -> 18th but .7 more PPG
Yards per game 21st -> 14th
Rushing attempts per game 32nd -> 29th
Rushing TD per game 21st -> 11th +.4 per game
3rd down conversion rate 22 -> 21st +1.3%
4th down conversion rate 30 -> 21st +15%
Red zone TD% 26 -> 14th +8.99%
And the big one everyone harps on.
Rushing yards per game
27th -> 28th but still +2.8 ypg
Thanks for the stats ML -
would be interesting to see same vs. above .500 teams but I'm too lazy. I mean if these guys are trying to reestablish Hawks as 1st tier team that's the test...
So Grubb didn't walk on water but did better in most listed categories.
'23 was 17 turnovers (+2 ratio) re 24 in '24 (-6 ratio) (3 were special teams???) - dunno how significant in '23 but may have lost a game or 2 in '24
But Grubb did this with a worse than '23 O line, 1st year in NFL for a team nowhere near ready to win NFC, his 1st year in NFL.
If as Ruthanne's link above suggests, Grubb resisted guidance from MM, he's fired for not knowing how to read an org chart.
Otherwise, seems like Grubb had the potential to take a '24 lesson learned and improve in '25.
I said before that I thought Grubb had some innovative play designs and ran the best screen game we’ve seen in years. Other aspects of his offense struggled making the leap to the NFL, but it’s not like they were the worst offense in the league. I would have given him another season to adjust, but I’m not losing sleep over this. If he and MM didn’t mesh then best to make a change the HC wants.
I personally love a great defense paired with a balanced, ball control offense, so if that’s MM’s plan I’m excited to see it! It worked great for PC and got our only SB win and I hope it brings a 2nd!
I’m disappointed but not surprised. I felt that Grubb was creative and had an open mind and that he might really improve after an offseason of reflection.
Politically, it makes sense. If you need someone to take the blame, Grubb had the least leverage. JS gets another chance. MM proved himself as capable. Geno might not be a superstar, but there are few people on the planet who are available, affordable, and better. That leaves Grubb. There are many more good OCs available than elite QBs.
I feel for Grubb, but there have got to be a ton of college teams who would like to hire him, based on his experience.
Adding yards before contact numbers just because I had to know and figured I'd share
'23 vs '24
Walker 16th 2.1 yds -> 51st 1.7 yds
Charb 22 22.3 yds -> 37th 2.1 yds
To me, this says a whole lot. And much more about the OL than about Grubb.
I really don't want to believe this was a mostly political decision, to pacify the fan base or to shift blame from those acquiring or coaching the talent.
Go back to Ruthanne Wong's linked post (above).
The suggestion via "a team source" (who else?) is that Grubb may have not taken MM feedback/guidance about how he wanted offense run.
That's within the realm of possibility -
Grubb a 50+ y.o. coming off a '23 Nat'l Championship O, being critically analyzed and guided by a 37 y.o. 1st yr. HC?? Possibility of friction.
Team building must go through "Forming, Storming, Norming". If problems are encountered, sometimes re-forming parts of the team.
Like you said, we don't want to believe it was political - doesn't seem how MM works.
So Grubb not deferring enough to MM, or like anyone in the work-a-day world who can't read an org chart, might make Grubb firing more understandable?
Yeah I agree. It could reflect on Huff or the fact that we had 4 different RT, 3 different RG, and 2 centers as starters this season
Huff could've been a sacrifice too. It's hard to say our offensive struggles running the ball weren't driven by BAD offensive line play. I'd love to see how we ranked in rushing yards before contact
Jumping from college at the same position is tough. Pete Carroll went from DC in college to six years as a DB coach before anyone thought he was ready to be a DC in the pros.
Well i liked Grubb, he cannot help a qb who does not complete red zone passes and throws interceptions. Keeping Huff is somewhat suprising.
macdonald wants his own guy, i understand that, but this decision is one that is successful or one that could cost his job. We will see.
I have always liked Schneider but starting to question some of his picks, look at the rams, one year and they have great D line, we have spent alot of picks with little success.
I still maintain your not winning a Superbowl with Geno, but looks like there sticking with him. Why did we not let howell play Sunday to see what we have
Just a fans thoughts
It could be they are keeping him for now. Just so they have a guy in place. If the new offensive coordinator wants a specific person for the offensive line coach role, they probably would let him make the change.