I like K9. Quick explosive smaller RB's dance around and break loose for big gains sometimes which is fun to watch. Having said that, I'll take Charbonnet for RB1 please. I truly LOVE big smash mouth run right over your sorry ass kinda backs...a Marshaun Lynch and Larry Zonka hybrid would do nicely...a mean dawg who can go between the Tackles and plow up 4 yds of turf with a Linebacker stuck to the front of his jersey. THAT is the RB fit, I think, is needed for a Kubiak run dominant/play action 'Air Darnold' delivery system. Force'm to sit up front, then throw dimes to the balcony.
K9 is so much more explosive than Charbonnet. That showed on the ALL 22 vid. When the hole opens, K9 hits it and gets through. Slower take off and Watt would have gotten the RB, when Walker busted it for a big run. Remember the run around the left with 3rd and long on about the 22 yard line? Walker broke it for a TD. You don't get that without some burst.
Agree with the other commenters that the OLine is still in progress and if there are no holes or opposing defense is in the backfield, that makes it beyond hard for any RB. Getting Outz back will be a big help along with the line gelling and getting better, more familiarity with the zone blocking plays that work and the ones that don't, more coaching on shortfalls. Let's wait and see.
I'll be sad to see K9 go, if that's what happens. I'm not sure if he is being limited due to injury concerns or situational preferences from the coaches or whatever, but it's a shame that he's not getting more snaps and carries. It may be what is best for the team and/or his season-long outlook, but it's frustrating for the K9 fan club. Charbs isn't doing anything special with his opportunities to make me think this timeshare is justified, so what's going on? Right now Walker and Charbonnet are averaging 13 and 12 carries/game, respectively. Make it Walker 15 and Charbs 10 and let's see what we've got. That is a pretty close approximation of how Detroit deploys Gibbs and Montgomery.
I'm also confused as to why these two aren't more incorporated into the passing game. They have both proven capable of doing more than just being check down options in years past, but I don't see KK using them as anything more so far.
If K9 got 15 carries and 5 targets per game, I think he'd make good on those opportunities and we'd be reading a different article right now. If KK/MM don't want to use him this way, or trust him as a true lead back, then yeah, he's not worth the value of a second contract. I think whoever signs him though won't regret spending that kind of money, and we'll all be a bit sad about it this time next year.
What would this offense look like if we had Marshawn Lynch as RB1? It would be truly explosive. The Kubiak system is based more on a Marshawn style running back. If you remember how elder Kubiak could change RB1 each year season in Denver with great success.
Yes the O line, TE and FB are still learning and hopefully will improve over the season as I expect they will as Sam carves up the middle and deep field on the stacked box forcing opponents to choose how to defend the Seahawks.
My vote would be to let Walker walk at the end of the season and let the offensive coaches and JS draft a RB in the 3rd round. So I support SSJ ideas of a 2026 RB competition next fall.
I am a Ken Walker fan and think he is a fine running back for our Seattle Seahawks.
At the end of the day, it is going to come down to the opportunity cost of his asking salary against his projected production. I took a look at the top 20 rushing leaders by yards and only 2 are backs with their original teams. 9 of the backs are on their rookie deals and 9 are on their 2nd team.
The 2 backs still with their original team are James Cook and Jonathan Taylor. I think both are more valuable than Walker, land #1 and #2 on the yardage list and command salaries in the $15 million/season range.
JS has shown he will draw a line and let a player walk if they will not compromise. See exhibit Geno Smith and DK Metcalf, among others.
For Walker, something in the $7 million/year range seems reasonable for me. That puts him right around the Tony Pollard salary range and who has similar production. $10 million per year is, I think, too much. Najee Harris only received a salary of $5.6/season after 4 straight 1,000 yard rushing seasons.
The question JS will likely be asking himself is, can I draft a back who will produce similarly to Walker? IMO, he has not done very well in this department. I would argue Charbonnet's production this year is making a case for keeping Walker, if the salary is reasonable.
This year I will enjoy what Walker brings to the table and enjoy the dynamic plays he is sure to rip off going forward. Next year I will trust John Schneider and company to make the best decision they think is right for this team.
In K9 and Charbs defence, the o-line and TE's are not regularly getting things blocked up properly. There always seems to be one or more players that whiff on their blocks, and so tackles happen rather quickly. Also, teams, so far, have decided they are going to pack the box, and have numbers at the LOS. I know MM still thinks that's what outside zone should be able to win against, but we're just not there yet.
On the other hand, the numbers and success rates are what they are. Really good RB's make their blockers right more often than lesser RB's. They make guys miss more often. They run guys over more often.
Running 15+ mph east or west is not that helpful. Running 15+ mph north or south is. And that's been the problem with K9, at least so far. Running is all about timing, and the timing has not been there yet.....at least not consistently. I'm still reasonably optimistic we will get the running game going as the season unfolds. Maybe when teams have had enough of Sam Darnold and JSN, and start playing with 7 or less in the box.
I think I’m too fond of Walker to discard him. I’ve seen potential and I can’t let go given the following:
1. Charbonnet (sp) is not a replacement. Tough and reliable in ball control, but not a threat like Walker.
2. The O-line is still a missing link in the run game. Better, but still missing one or two pieces.
3. Fullback injuries.
Now the question of money needs to factor in. I don’t know what the number should be but there is a lot of competition out there. (Truthfully, I can’t make a salary argument to save my life but 5-6 million would seem reasonable to me.) So I’m going with that and everyone’s happy. In my world.
Great discussion as always! Great article as always!
Couple things: I don't know, if I was K9, that I would want an incentive-heavy contract when I only get about 50% of the carries.
If the coaches are using Charbs to keep K9 healthier longer, they are just shooting themselves in the foot since Charbs is ranked last or cloae to last in almost all stat categories except fumbles. Sure, he's a good pass blocker, but he is no threat and our OL hasn't helped either him or K9. Everytime he comes out, our offense drags. He needs the ball more like 15-18 times a game instead of 10-13.
If JS planned on letting him go, he would probably not be overly concerned with keeping him healthy for the long term. We have seen many a coach run their RBs into the ground in a contract year when they didn't plan on bringing them back.
In relation to the run game, is it possible that Sundell is a bigger issue than Bradford? Or that at least Bradford would be easier to hide with competent center play?
I wonder if they consider Olu during the bye, because Jalen hasn’t exactly been winning any hearts and minds. I doubt there are starting caliber centers available for trade, nor is it easy to learn a new playbook for an OL mid season.
SSJ, would you be able to give us any insight into what you’ve seen with Sundell, and if the risk/reward of chemistry would be worth it to potentially consider a change?
I like Charbs but he's too slow to be RB1. It's hard to evaluate K9 without having an Oline that's better than average, especially if we can't run to the right successfully.
If we can sign him for 8 mill, we should keep him. We shouldn't use a 1st round pick on a RB. when we have much bigger needs. ( LB, EDGE, RG. )
With so many running backs available in 26 , 8 mill may be the best any of them can get! I have faith that JS can figure it out, just like he got a 3rd round pick and saved 30 mill by trading Geno for a younger, better QB in Darnold.
An aside, the Ravens defense without MM is a disaster. Looks like we got the right HC.
I suspect the Ravens have been losing their team identity. Ballers playing at elite levels are losing inspiration? Might we hope to see team sports revive?
I think it’s harsh to knock Walker about his stats given our O-line is still a work in progress and the coaching hasn’t had our running game working very well at all IMO.
I think we need to give it some more time to see how the rest of the season goes before we all suggest he’s not worth keeping or not performing as a RB1. So far he hasn’t had the best system to work within.
When a RB as talented as Charbonet has well under 3 YPC, it’s clear that the OL still has problems and/or, the opposing is really stacking the box. Given that Charbs is more likely to be in on 3rd down, and that’s when teams are least likely to stack the box, our OL isn’t quite there yet.
We know from the stats that the opposition is absolutely stacking the box on 1st and 2nd against the Seahawks, possibly more than against any other team. Yet Walker has over 4 YPC.
That average keeps us running viably, and that opens up the field for Sam and JSN.
I’ve seen what happens when the opponent isn’t scared of your RB, and it’s not good.
Frankly, I think the Texans D will focus more on the pass and Walker will benefit. The Jags sold out against the run, and Sam gashed them - deep and over the middle. Houston will try to solve that, and our RBs will feast. Meanwhile, the blockers will feel like they took the weighted donut off their bat. A lighter box will be a relief.
Sam and Koob can now begin feasting... Pass? No wait...run. No wait...pass. HooAh. Go boyz! McVay walked downfield on MM on 9 run plays consecutive. TD. Lessons learned.
As a free agent, would Walker WANT to come back to the Hawks? I kind of doubt it. Not unless something changes the rest of the season. Will the O-Line mature and give consistent holes for Walker to run through? Will K9 improve on his blitz pickups and be valuable as the third down back? Will the coaches demonstrate faith in K9?
Only if all of those things came true would I expect K9 to WANT to re-sign with the Seahawks.
Will any other team offer K9 anything better, besides money? I doubt it. I wouldn't blame KW3 for taking the most money from whichever team offers it, but I don't think money will guarantee a better situation.
I like K9. Quick explosive smaller RB's dance around and break loose for big gains sometimes which is fun to watch. Having said that, I'll take Charbonnet for RB1 please. I truly LOVE big smash mouth run right over your sorry ass kinda backs...a Marshaun Lynch and Larry Zonka hybrid would do nicely...a mean dawg who can go between the Tackles and plow up 4 yds of turf with a Linebacker stuck to the front of his jersey. THAT is the RB fit, I think, is needed for a Kubiak run dominant/play action 'Air Darnold' delivery system. Force'm to sit up front, then throw dimes to the balcony.
K9 is so much more explosive than Charbonnet. That showed on the ALL 22 vid. When the hole opens, K9 hits it and gets through. Slower take off and Watt would have gotten the RB, when Walker busted it for a big run. Remember the run around the left with 3rd and long on about the 22 yard line? Walker broke it for a TD. You don't get that without some burst.
Agree with the other commenters that the OLine is still in progress and if there are no holes or opposing defense is in the backfield, that makes it beyond hard for any RB. Getting Outz back will be a big help along with the line gelling and getting better, more familiarity with the zone blocking plays that work and the ones that don't, more coaching on shortfalls. Let's wait and see.
I'll be sad to see K9 go, if that's what happens. I'm not sure if he is being limited due to injury concerns or situational preferences from the coaches or whatever, but it's a shame that he's not getting more snaps and carries. It may be what is best for the team and/or his season-long outlook, but it's frustrating for the K9 fan club. Charbs isn't doing anything special with his opportunities to make me think this timeshare is justified, so what's going on? Right now Walker and Charbonnet are averaging 13 and 12 carries/game, respectively. Make it Walker 15 and Charbs 10 and let's see what we've got. That is a pretty close approximation of how Detroit deploys Gibbs and Montgomery.
I'm also confused as to why these two aren't more incorporated into the passing game. They have both proven capable of doing more than just being check down options in years past, but I don't see KK using them as anything more so far.
If K9 got 15 carries and 5 targets per game, I think he'd make good on those opportunities and we'd be reading a different article right now. If KK/MM don't want to use him this way, or trust him as a true lead back, then yeah, he's not worth the value of a second contract. I think whoever signs him though won't regret spending that kind of money, and we'll all be a bit sad about it this time next year.
Okay, I have a new take. And this could only happen in my own fantasy Seahawks world.
If SSJ is right and our best move is to move on from Walker (still a downer), let’s talk trade deadline.
Walker, Woolen and a draft pick for some outrageously good DE.
Just a few weeks away……
What would this offense look like if we had Marshawn Lynch as RB1? It would be truly explosive. The Kubiak system is based more on a Marshawn style running back. If you remember how elder Kubiak could change RB1 each year season in Denver with great success.
Yes the O line, TE and FB are still learning and hopefully will improve over the season as I expect they will as Sam carves up the middle and deep field on the stacked box forcing opponents to choose how to defend the Seahawks.
My vote would be to let Walker walk at the end of the season and let the offensive coaches and JS draft a RB in the 3rd round. So I support SSJ ideas of a 2026 RB competition next fall.
I am a Ken Walker fan and think he is a fine running back for our Seattle Seahawks.
At the end of the day, it is going to come down to the opportunity cost of his asking salary against his projected production. I took a look at the top 20 rushing leaders by yards and only 2 are backs with their original teams. 9 of the backs are on their rookie deals and 9 are on their 2nd team.
The 2 backs still with their original team are James Cook and Jonathan Taylor. I think both are more valuable than Walker, land #1 and #2 on the yardage list and command salaries in the $15 million/season range.
JS has shown he will draw a line and let a player walk if they will not compromise. See exhibit Geno Smith and DK Metcalf, among others.
For Walker, something in the $7 million/year range seems reasonable for me. That puts him right around the Tony Pollard salary range and who has similar production. $10 million per year is, I think, too much. Najee Harris only received a salary of $5.6/season after 4 straight 1,000 yard rushing seasons.
The question JS will likely be asking himself is, can I draft a back who will produce similarly to Walker? IMO, he has not done very well in this department. I would argue Charbonnet's production this year is making a case for keeping Walker, if the salary is reasonable.
This year I will enjoy what Walker brings to the table and enjoy the dynamic plays he is sure to rip off going forward. Next year I will trust John Schneider and company to make the best decision they think is right for this team.
In K9 and Charbs defence, the o-line and TE's are not regularly getting things blocked up properly. There always seems to be one or more players that whiff on their blocks, and so tackles happen rather quickly. Also, teams, so far, have decided they are going to pack the box, and have numbers at the LOS. I know MM still thinks that's what outside zone should be able to win against, but we're just not there yet.
On the other hand, the numbers and success rates are what they are. Really good RB's make their blockers right more often than lesser RB's. They make guys miss more often. They run guys over more often.
Running 15+ mph east or west is not that helpful. Running 15+ mph north or south is. And that's been the problem with K9, at least so far. Running is all about timing, and the timing has not been there yet.....at least not consistently. I'm still reasonably optimistic we will get the running game going as the season unfolds. Maybe when teams have had enough of Sam Darnold and JSN, and start playing with 7 or less in the box.
SSJ,now that was a downer!
I think I’m too fond of Walker to discard him. I’ve seen potential and I can’t let go given the following:
1. Charbonnet (sp) is not a replacement. Tough and reliable in ball control, but not a threat like Walker.
2. The O-line is still a missing link in the run game. Better, but still missing one or two pieces.
3. Fullback injuries.
Now the question of money needs to factor in. I don’t know what the number should be but there is a lot of competition out there. (Truthfully, I can’t make a salary argument to save my life but 5-6 million would seem reasonable to me.) So I’m going with that and everyone’s happy. In my world.
Great discussion as always! Great article as always!
Couple things: I don't know, if I was K9, that I would want an incentive-heavy contract when I only get about 50% of the carries.
If the coaches are using Charbs to keep K9 healthier longer, they are just shooting themselves in the foot since Charbs is ranked last or cloae to last in almost all stat categories except fumbles. Sure, he's a good pass blocker, but he is no threat and our OL hasn't helped either him or K9. Everytime he comes out, our offense drags. He needs the ball more like 15-18 times a game instead of 10-13.
If JS planned on letting him go, he would probably not be overly concerned with keeping him healthy for the long term. We have seen many a coach run their RBs into the ground in a contract year when they didn't plan on bringing them back.
Get our fullback back and everything will be fixed.
In relation to the run game, is it possible that Sundell is a bigger issue than Bradford? Or that at least Bradford would be easier to hide with competent center play?
I wonder if they consider Olu during the bye, because Jalen hasn’t exactly been winning any hearts and minds. I doubt there are starting caliber centers available for trade, nor is it easy to learn a new playbook for an OL mid season.
SSJ, would you be able to give us any insight into what you’ve seen with Sundell, and if the risk/reward of chemistry would be worth it to potentially consider a change?
Still lamenting JS and PC passing on Creed Humphrey as center and taking Dwayne Eskridge in the second round in the 2021 draft. Big mistake.
I like Charbs but he's too slow to be RB1. It's hard to evaluate K9 without having an Oline that's better than average, especially if we can't run to the right successfully.
If we can sign him for 8 mill, we should keep him. We shouldn't use a 1st round pick on a RB. when we have much bigger needs. ( LB, EDGE, RG. )
With so many running backs available in 26 , 8 mill may be the best any of them can get! I have faith that JS can figure it out, just like he got a 3rd round pick and saved 30 mill by trading Geno for a younger, better QB in Darnold.
An aside, the Ravens defense without MM is a disaster. Looks like we got the right HC.
Assume your “LB” is in reference to Edge, otherwise, Jones, Thomas and Knight, but especially Thomas, are showing up.
I suspect the Ravens have been losing their team identity. Ballers playing at elite levels are losing inspiration? Might we hope to see team sports revive?
I think it’s harsh to knock Walker about his stats given our O-line is still a work in progress and the coaching hasn’t had our running game working very well at all IMO.
I think we need to give it some more time to see how the rest of the season goes before we all suggest he’s not worth keeping or not performing as a RB1. So far he hasn’t had the best system to work within.
Absolutely with you on this, Dale. We have over a half season to get there...
Why not just move him into the receiving corps?
When a RB as talented as Charbonet has well under 3 YPC, it’s clear that the OL still has problems and/or, the opposing is really stacking the box. Given that Charbs is more likely to be in on 3rd down, and that’s when teams are least likely to stack the box, our OL isn’t quite there yet.
We know from the stats that the opposition is absolutely stacking the box on 1st and 2nd against the Seahawks, possibly more than against any other team. Yet Walker has over 4 YPC.
That average keeps us running viably, and that opens up the field for Sam and JSN.
I’ve seen what happens when the opponent isn’t scared of your RB, and it’s not good.
Frankly, I think the Texans D will focus more on the pass and Walker will benefit. The Jags sold out against the run, and Sam gashed them - deep and over the middle. Houston will try to solve that, and our RBs will feast. Meanwhile, the blockers will feel like they took the weighted donut off their bat. A lighter box will be a relief.
We will see…
Sam and Koob can now begin feasting... Pass? No wait...run. No wait...pass. HooAh. Go boyz! McVay walked downfield on MM on 9 run plays consecutive. TD. Lessons learned.
As a free agent, would Walker WANT to come back to the Hawks? I kind of doubt it. Not unless something changes the rest of the season. Will the O-Line mature and give consistent holes for Walker to run through? Will K9 improve on his blitz pickups and be valuable as the third down back? Will the coaches demonstrate faith in K9?
Only if all of those things came true would I expect K9 to WANT to re-sign with the Seahawks.
Will any other team offer K9 anything better, besides money? I doubt it. I wouldn't blame KW3 for taking the most money from whichever team offers it, but I don't think money will guarantee a better situation.
My hope is he begins to appreciate the value of a Team playing as One. Safer. Healthier. Happier. Being rich by anyone's measure.