During training camp someone was talking about Pete moving DW around so much and playing him at Nickel. As I said then I was sure Pete had thoughts of him maybe playing at the Nickel, at least until they find someone who can actually play it, Coby aint it! It showed in this last game. If DW plays like that out of the Nickel then I will even back off the should of not drafted him there! Loved it! Plus it is what this Defense needs as I also have stated before. This D really doesn't work (at least right/properly) unless they have a very good Nickel! GO HAWKS!
Nailed it. Witherspoon is exactly what this team needed. It’s incredible a 21 year old rookie is inspiring this defense to play with more intensity! I hope Hurt continues to call aggressive games. Performance on 3rd downs has to improve on both sides of the ball. Geno has to be better. I don’t think Lock is the answer though. I’d like to see more carries for Charbs. I have no idea what’s going on with JSN. Adams looked good before the concussion. Jarran Reed continues his surprising play. It’s a really good 3-1 start. Go Hawks!
I'm so late almost no one will see this but cowherd finally admitted he was wrong!
“Pete Carroll’s been in Seattle 14 years. This is the fourth version of his Seahawks. Most coaches — good coaches — struggle to pivot once or twice. He’s pivoted four times. … Pete Carroll knows how to coach. I was very hard on him during the last few years of (Russell Wilson) and Pete Carroll, I was clearly wrong. He saw things with Russ that clearly worried him. All four versions of Pete Carroll’s Seahawks, they’ve all made the playoffs. That’s remarkable.”
Just watched that video. It felt like redemption of sorts. I think he's a HOF coach already, but Colin's right. If he gets another SB win, it's a lock.
I think we are all guilty of selective memory about 2013. Our defense's bend but don't break was maddening at times. They kept teams out of the end zone but gave up TONS of yards. Most of the games were unnecessarily close and sloppy. We led or were close to the top of the league in penalties. Russ was spectacular in spurts, mediocre more often but relatively secure with the football. They were amazing at being opportunistic with big plays on offense & defense at crucial times in the game. There are plenty of things to criticize about this team, but like in 2013, there is an intangible grittiness, confidence & overactive competitiveness that keeps them in games until something breaks their way. This is looking like a textbook Pete Carroll team...maddening and entertaining at the same time, but usually on top when it's done. I think injuries are the only thing that can keep this group from being special. I mean honestly, has anyone ever seem a nickel corner take over a game. Textbook Pete.
Back then (2013), I recall the Non-Seahawk naysayer friends ribbing me as the game would wind down and it looked to be a sure loss. Every time I'd reply to the diss by calmly sayin "Don't ever count these guys out" and BOOM! miracles happened. Recovered on-side kicks. Kearse landing on his back at the goal line and the disrupted pass falling onto his lap. More often than not I got to cooly shrug and say "I told you not to count them out" followed by "Pay up". Been here ever since. Aaron Rodger's look of disbelief is still with me... and so is Pete Carroll.
I was worried about this game. This was going to be the third game that the Seahawks were down both tackles so there was a lot of film on what the Seahawks were doing. The Giants had a 10 days to prepare. Wink is not a bad DC and the Giants defense was pissed. I expected a long night on the offensive side of the ball and did not expect Seattle to break 20 points. If you had told me the Seahawks would loose both guards during the game, I would have revised that to 10 points. (The offense put themselves in position to score 10 to 13). What I did not count on was the defense. Yes the Giant offense without Barkley has no engine and but for 2 quarters in Arizona would be the worst in the league. Still to this point the Seahawks defense had been the easiest to throw on in the league, and I was worried that Jones would throw for 200 and run for 100 and the Seahawks would loose a low scoring game. Instead watching last night last night, it felt like I was back in 2012 watching a young defense smoother an opponent. The key to that was not a dominate pass Rush but the ability to stop the run while still covering the middle of the field on pass plays. The Giants and Jones knew their offensive line was also banged up and that he needed to get the ball out quickly, but he held the ball. To quote Arik Armstead "Daniel Jones I am so disappointed in you.... why would you throw the ball so quick vs us and let these people have a career day?... why weren't we deserving? Without seeing the all 22, Arik I think I have an answer - his first read was covered.
And Yes the Giants receivers don't strike fear into NFL defensive backs. But neither do the Panthers receivers and they had a very good day against Seattle despite a suspect line. So what changed? Answer - Witherspoon moved inside. Witherspoon looks like the truth. The play that stood out for me was not Daniel Jones gifting him a pick six with the assist of from Woolen (that dude can run). No the play that made me a believer was the bluffing coverage and blitzing that was beautiful. Commentators engage in a lot of hype but I don't think Ryan Clark was hyping when he observed how naturally Witherspoon plays the middle of the field. Like Sherman, Witherspoon knows what is going to happen before it happens, he hits like Cam but with perfect form. Last night his impact was that of Earl Thomas. ET was the key to the LB because he took away deep middle of the field making it possible to smother opponents at the line of scrimmage. Last night Witherspoon took away the short middle of the field allowing the Seahawks to smoother the Giants.
When they drafted Witherspoon I could not figure out where he would play. He was built like a safety rather than an outside corner and the Seahawks had two highly paid and when healthy very good safeties. Moving to slot corner / short safety - he dominated and the Giants were suffocated by a 5' 10' 180 pound play. A defensive back built for the modern game. The result was an Oprah game for the defensive line - everybody gets a sack. If Adams can stay healthy and we get back our full compliment of corners, the defense might turn out better than I thought.
That being said it was the Giants and I agree that the team I saw last night would not beat the 49ers, the Eagles or even the Cowboys. In fact with 4 reserve linemen and the center playing guard the Seahawks would not have beaten the Lions even with an improved defense. But the Seahawks don't have to play them right now. The next month is the Bengal's, the Cardinals and the Browns. The Seahawks don't have to be there best version to win those games. They just need to win so that they can get healthy.
At his press conference Pete said "we are just getting started." I remember that phrase from back in 2012 and 2013. Back then the Seahawks got better as the season progressed. Last night was ugly but it still give me reason to think he might be right. Last year the Seahawks won while rebuilding this year they need to win while getting healthy. I am not sure I am a believer yet but I am starting to hope.
One thing that Joe has pointed out a ton and I think was the case last year is that the defense did not have any blue chip talent. I think they collectively had some pretty good players. Maybe Woolen could get there? But seeing Spoon play last night is why it is so important. Having that type of player makes the rest of the pretty good players even better.
It is just incredibly hard and important to get those guys. And we may have got one. Fingers crossed.
>>Having that type of player makes the rest of the pretty good players even better.<< To athletes, it is contagious, especially coming from a guy not ideally built to make such an impact. Last night, Spoon put a hit on their RB that puts others in the Tent. These Rookies are bringing the contagion, as we saw when DK complemented Bobo on moves he's not seen and is learning from. Bobo was genuinely surprised to hear that.
This was the game I wanted us to have vs the Panthers. To go out and just dunk on a bad OLine and team, make the clear statement of intent. But still not going to get too carried away, there are still BIG F*CKING ISSUES that will be horribly exposed by good teams and the playoffs. For a week however i'll let myself get a little swept up in the Sack Race and joy of bullying the Giants.
Obviously loved Spoon (that Spoon, that Spoon, that Spoon…) and an unreal # of sacks.
3-1 is awesome, after that first game where they shat themselves in the 2nd half.
Was anyone else hoping to see Lock start the 2nd half? I think that was a missed opportunity to see what he could do after a halftime break to be ready and focus on running the offense.
They were playing the GIANTS! They were in control, even though they hadn’t put them away by a long shot. I think Lock could have managed the game as well as Geno did. I’m not calling for Geno to lose his job..yet.. but don’t we know what he can do?
And to say he was “adequate” or “not awesome “ is just to say he didn’t turn the ball over or lose the game. What if Spoon hadn’t had the pick 6? Would Geno had suddenly come to life and finished a drive longer than 40 yards?
I will stop on him for now, but our schedule gets pretty rough down the road.
Hopefully, a bye week and some healthy returns help them take their next step forward.GO HAWKS!!
I am putting our sad record of 3rd down conversions on any QB. He's The Man of the moment when he see's what is arrayed against him, knows what his options are, calls the adjustments and GOES. If all else fails, do as we saw an edgy Lock do and take it yourself. There's now an elephant in the room. Pete has some most serious realities to deal with. Soon enough, the Team will decide.
Vegas wasn't built by setting bad lines ... Make no mistake about it: The Giants opened as the (slight) favorites in this game. Yes, I think it was a bad line but you still got to respect what they are seeing. And what they are seeing is cluster injuries to the offensive line in Seattle against a good defensive line in Giants.
I'm not sure what Jake Curhan needs to do? He is 7-1 as a starter and is a mauler in run offense. The man is getting paid less than 1 million dollars a year. He just went up against on the road to Aiden Hutchinson (2nd overall pick!), Derrick Brown (7th overall pick) / Brian Burns (makes $16M a year), and on the road and for some reason the Hawks stuck him on an island against Kayvon Thibodeaux (5th overall pick). I would have to check but I think he has given up a total of 2 sacks. And those 2 sacks we don't know are on him or the running backs not chipping.
Also, the Giants made the playoffs last year. In no way shape or form did anyone in or around football think that the Giants were anywhere near the worst team in the league. That is what the Seahawks did to them last night.
In the NFL, there will always be weird games. That is the nature of the game. Refs affect outcomes of games. We are likely to go the rest of the year without another holding call on a run play - we had 3 (only 1 was legit on DK). We had a false start on a play that every center does every week on the snap. And we had a lineman down field by inches (unclear if that was Curhan's fault or just unlucky).
At the end of the day, all that matters is winning. Geno didn't necessarily play great and didn't necessarily play bad (no turnovers or even close) - but he did play well enough to win. Lock came in and did what needed to be down to win. Olu Olu did what needed to be down to win. All the Hawks did what it took to win, and win by a large margin. That is great to see. Not every game can and will be beautiful.
The things that I would like to see changed. I think it is time to move Charbs (or Dallas) above Ken for short yardage situations. The drive to start the second half was forced to a 4th down because K9 didn't pick it up in a relatively easy situation. Charbs/Dallas get that every time. And I don't want K9 to change, I like the home run hitter, just not at bat when you need a single. We know he has a low success rate.
Finishing drives is gonna be something Pete will undoubtedly talk about with Shane/Geno. They need to get on the same page with the lead in the 4th quarter. Thats twice now.
Overall, the doom and gloomers about the Seahawks have been proven wrong again. After week 1 they are now 3 -1, handled business with a backup line and will get healthier as the year goes on.
I want to see us win and advance in the Playoffs this year. 3 out of 10 tries at 3rd down conversions may get us to the Playoffs, but that will be as far as we go. Every healthy player was on the field for us last night because they earned the right to be there through competition. That applies to all but QB. I understand the position comes with special considerations. Last night was the first time we saw what Drew Lock brings now, and I liked what I saw, especially as regards 3rd downs. We may make note of the 40-0 drubbing the Cowboys gave the Giants recently, at home in Dallas. Our Defense exceeded the efforts their defense gave to the Giants, on the road in New Jersey, no less. Geno will no doubt lead us in 2 weeks, hobbled or not. Loyalties and teamwork demand it. In the first Playoff Game, the Season stats are recorded and contract stipulations will be behind us. I now know we have a backup QB capable of advancing us beyond the first round. Let's hope Geno solves the 3rd down conundrum and gets his big payday. I will cheer for that to happen and be a better person for doing so. All I know is I saw a damn good back-up last night and am damn hopeful a visit to the Super Bowl is a distinct possibility.
I have been high on Lock as anyone. I don't think he was ever a throw in in the RW trade. I think that JS liked him in the draft and has kept tabs on his career. He has a canon for an arm, is athletic, and is the prototypical size. I think the Seahawks see him as a potential franchise QB. You saw a glimpse last night.
The questions can the Hawks play with the big boys in the NFL are fair! However, I do not underrate how hard it is to win week in and week out in the NFL. Also, taking care of business against a (potentially) lesser opponent is a good trait to have.
I personally do not think we are there yet (to the tier 1 class in the NFL) but I also think we are only in year 2 of the rebuild. The rebuild should climax when the rookies get to their 3rd and 4th years. That will be next year and the following.
I think the org has a very tough and important decision to make this offseason (unless Geno falls apart before then). Stick with Geno? Move to Lock? Or draft a QB? The team will have a lot of pieces in place to win the SB in 2024 and 2025.
I think they are going with Lock and I think that has been the plan or at least one plan the whole time.
"Vegas wasn't built by setting bad lines ... Make no mistake about it: The Giants opened as the (slight) favorites in this game." LV isn't in the business of predicting scores, their goal is to keep the betting even.
Yeah ... that is right. But they also aren't trying to get buried by Sharp money by throwing out a bad line. They may have here, as the market did take it to Hawks -2/-2.5 by kick. That also could've been due to injury news or both.
I think my point is still valid. The Hawks made this look like an easy game, I don't think most people thought it would be. And if you did, get to a sportsbook and lay it down. Give the Hawks credit for going on the road and kicking ass against what the markets believed was going to be a close game. A playoff team off a mini bye at home in Primetime. And although the line or offense didn't play great, I would hardly say the offense / offensive line got their asses kicked.
Just because the point spread moved 3 to 3.5 points in one direction doesn't mean the casinos lost money on a bad initial line. We would need more information than that.
I had some random thoughts during the game that the defense against the run was great except for containing Daniel Jones when a play broke down. He had to be their leading rusher. But the 'Hawks have always had trouble with extremely mobile QBs in this regard. Also, I think the lack of great pass defense in the secondary has more to do with the coaches schemes than the players. The refs were the Giants best friends throughout the game and, when the occasional penalty was called on them, Brian Dabol should have been smiling instead of complaining. I can't remember that bed of officiating since the Seahawks were beaten by the officials in their first super bowl appearance. Spoon is already great and just going to get better. Be great to get Tre Brown back out there with Witherspoon and Woolen.
Concussions happen and Adams will ne back after the bye week. Things are looking up for the "D" and, like a lot of others, I wanted Lock to finish the game. He just seems to bring more dynamism into the mix.
Very odd officiating game. I don't see that very often but it does happen.
I am cautiously optimistic about the defense. At least you could finally see the vision and it looked good. Also, along with Spoon, thought Love played great. If you think Adams can be anywhere near the player he used to be, now you got Spoon and Adams that are very violent/attacking players on defense. Tone setters who have the ability to generate negative plays (sacks, tackles for losses, etc).
Exciting stuff .. but just one game.
As for Lock, I don't see him overtaking Geno unless things get real ugly. However, I do think the Seahawks are grooming him for the future. Remember this is only year 2 of the rebuild and we are really shooting for the 3rd and 4th years of the rookie classes. That will be the time the franchise has the hard decision to stick with Geno? Go with Lock? Or draft a rookie to airdrop into an already good team.
To toot me, I did write before the season that the Giants looked like one of the worst teams in the league to me. I could have said that before the 2022 season also and they did make the playoffs, so there's that.
I do think it's something to say that Thibodeaux has his best career game against you. Ignore the draft status, yes he is talented (way more talented than Curhan), but it's not like a good thing to "activate" a player who had been struggling so badly.
Jake Curhan is an above average backup tackle, there you go, because most teams don't even have two good starting tackles to begin with.
Well... that is a good call on the Giants as they are 0-4 against the spread.
If you are saying that Curhan activated Thibs ... what can be said about the entire Giants line? The Hawks coming into the game had one of the worst Defenses in the NFL. If Curhan was "awful" (don't think anyone agrees including Pete) is there even a word in the English language to accurately describe the Giants?
I don't think anyone thinks we can win long term with Stone and Jake. But those dudes coming in and helping the club get 3 wins and keeping the season on track is HUGE. Big props to them, IMO.
Keep those receipts on Spoon! I remember reading all your articles around the draft. Very exciting to predict it correctly and then see the on-field play.
I think Pete wants that defense every game with a final score of 13-12 after a last second Seahawks FG. My heart can’t take many more of those, but I can definitely take more like last night.
I’m not an analytics guy, but I know their preference for going for it on 4th down, short yardage. My limited sample size from the Hawks games isn’t totally convincing me. A stop on those plays might fire the defense up more than success does the offense.
Detroit missed on a couple, which energized the Hawks while depriving themselves of points in a game that ended tied.
Last night the Giants tried one early and failed which visibly inspired the Seahawks defense. The Hawks failed on one when a FG would have given a 2 TD lead. And then, even more ominously for analytics and Giants, the Giants converted an attempt rather than kick a FG that would have narrowed the gap to 8 points. That success opened the door for the fatal offensive error of a 97 yard pick six by Witherspoon. I don’t know if analytics factors in the chance of future calamity resulting from a successful conversion.
I know it’s a small sample size and I probably remember the bad results more than the good ones. However, I’m not 100% convinced that the risk/reward really favors the gambling style.
The analytic arguments for going for it on fourth down make a good broad point: Coaches should do it more often. But the anals get far too doctrinaire—they seem to refuse to recognize that football has an infinite combination of situations and conditions, meaning that a coach’s feel for any given fourth down must inevitably come into play. Plus—and I’ve asked for it—they cannot correlate going for it more with offensive efficiency or wins or anything else.
The only yards Geno can boast are the 6 yards that were gifted to him when the defense recovered the fumble at their 6 yard line in the last seconds of the 1st quarter and put points on the board. Geno was nowhere on the field for the remainder of the scores. How many times was he sacked?
That hit he took to his knees was bad. When it happened I felt the pain in my own knees knowing that kind of action simply isn't something our knees can handle without extreme pain and injury. He wasn't needed on the field based on how he had been playing, so why he insisted on whatever short-term fix they delivered in the locker room under the pretense of x-rays was stupid and Pete should have refused to let him have his helmet back. The Hawks didn't win because of anything he did. IMHO
K9 is always fun to watch. Witherspoon is superhuman on the field. Wagner managed to get mentioned a couple of times last night. Poor Jones is going to have the name Witherspoon trigger PTSD for the rest of his life.
A win is a win, but I really had a hard time not wishing that game was over at halftime.
I liked what I saw of Lock, but most of his yardage came on one pass to Fant. He didn’t have as high a completion percentage as Geno and he wasn’t crunched out of bounds like Geno. I’m not a Geno apologist, I know he’s not an A+ QB, but he’s at least a solid B+. The team likes him and the coaches like him. I’m willing to wait for a final verdict until after the OL gets healthy, knowing that the Hawks have a solid backup QB to use confidently if the need arises.
We also have to remember that it’s just the beginning of his second season starting for the Seahawks. Even most of the great QBs didn’t win a Super Bowl in their first season as starter, so there’s still hope.
I was unimpressed. But, we don’t how Lock would have fared across the entire game. I’ve got reservations about Geno, but I’d still like to see how he fares with an intact OL.
The hit to the knees was painful and I honestly don’t know how he didn’t break his ankles. It looked like Geno had the ankles in the only position that doesn’t break them, I don’t know if that’s training or luck. I was nothing more than a sandlot athlete and I had notoriously injury prone ankles, so maybe it’s just me. I’m still not sure that wasn’t a personal foul on the defender. I’m also not sure about the rough tackle on Lockett or the blind side shove while the scrum was watching the punt roll to a stop.
This was a quintessential Pete game. Adequate, balanced, no turnover offense. Good special teams. Great defense! I know the defense was still suspect on 3rd down, but 11 sacks and 3 turnovers qualifies as great to me and Pete.
Geno was just ok, but after a questionable play that could have drawn a personal foul penalty, he gutted out a tough night. He didn’t win the game, but he also didn’t lose it. Classic game manager night. It was obvious he was angry that the foul wasn’t called and that a foul wasn’t called when Lockett was slammed out of bounds. His worst play was the near interception right after his legs were rolled up out of bounds. But he persevered and I suspect his fiery attitude encouraged his teammates. Lock looked good in his limited time and I would probably have kept him in longer.
DeeJay looked improved as a returner, Dickson continues to be a great punter, the return team was great, and Meyers was ok (solid kickoffs, but a long missed FG).
Witherspoon was a revelation- brutal tackles, 2 sacks! 97 yard pick six! What more could you want? He reminded me of a Kam/Earl hybrid, he was everywhere and brought the thunder! There will be a lot of his jerseys sold today! Maybe one for me. And a total of 11 sacks by the D, wow! I said it last night on the thread, but if they can get 1/2 that in games on a routine basis they will change games.
I've been asking for a Witherspoon throwback jersey since the throwback's were revealed. Felt there was something about him that reminds me of the only other jersey I've bought for myself (Chancellor)
My original post ended up being pretty negative. I deleted that. OK, most of that.
I won't forget that Pete claimed he brought in Ken Norton Jr as DC specifically to "fix fundamentals." Like tackling, Actually, specifically tackling. That was in 2018. This has been a problem through THREE defensive coordinators. Tackling doesn't mean 2, 3, 4 defenders contacting a ballcarrier before taking that player down. That's bad. I recall when the Seahawks could tackle. Those are cool memories.
Pretty sure 90% of the reason Daniel Jones got that extension is because he looks like Eli Manning.
3 and 1 going into the break sure feels good. Watching the defense come together and do some damage was a lot of fun. Something seems to be happening with the fourth down plays, we’re going for it and although it’s not always successful, I like the idea. My memory isn’t as good as it once was but I think Carrol has gone on 4th down more often in the last two games than maybe in any whole season prior. And, how about already being up by 2 scores last week going for a 2 point conversion. What’s going on?
A coming out night for the D, for sure, even with the early Jamal exit. Defensive Rookie of the Year (and maybe Defensive Player of the Year) Witherspoon is a revelation and I will say it again that I did "see" his first INT coming this game! Witherspoon will become the "Kam" of this defence and maybe earlier than I thought.
On offense though, wow that was bad. I will give Geno a bit of a pass because of the injury but the execution was not there. I wonder how it all changes though if K9's first touchdown is allowed to stand? What a great play that was by K9 to maintain his balance, "butt cheek" notwithstanding (I still didn't see it on frame by frame replay). The referreeing was awful. Those holding calls--some of them were phantom calls. The broadcast did not do a replay of the Parkinson "hold" but he was pissed about it.
Lock came in cold and I thought still looked good. Uncharacteristic drops by JSN and Lockett and he still converted a 3rd and 10. His athleticism showed out on a run for a first down also. Lock led the longest scroing drive of the night, and it wasn't close.
If the Seahawks can ever get the offense rolling like the D was tonight, LOOK OUT.
Bradford's had 1 on Walker's sweep that was nothing, DK's was debateable, but Evan Brown's "false start" was an inexcusably bad call. The refs have to see centers pointing and turning heads all the time. He had no jerky movements. It's almost like that ref was a "new guy" who didn't know the way games are officiated in game situations.
On that one drive in the first half that had 4 in a row, at least 2 were bad calls.
But, the team overcame. I was really impressed that they got the 1st down after all that (even though it didn't stand). I thought it was a real good accomplishment for the offense.
Yep, that's the thing with penalties--they can be random events and it is how you react to them as a team that is the important thing. The Seahawks overcame them in the game which is to their credit.
During training camp someone was talking about Pete moving DW around so much and playing him at Nickel. As I said then I was sure Pete had thoughts of him maybe playing at the Nickel, at least until they find someone who can actually play it, Coby aint it! It showed in this last game. If DW plays like that out of the Nickel then I will even back off the should of not drafted him there! Loved it! Plus it is what this Defense needs as I also have stated before. This D really doesn't work (at least right/properly) unless they have a very good Nickel! GO HAWKS!
Nailed it. Witherspoon is exactly what this team needed. It’s incredible a 21 year old rookie is inspiring this defense to play with more intensity! I hope Hurt continues to call aggressive games. Performance on 3rd downs has to improve on both sides of the ball. Geno has to be better. I don’t think Lock is the answer though. I’d like to see more carries for Charbs. I have no idea what’s going on with JSN. Adams looked good before the concussion. Jarran Reed continues his surprising play. It’s a really good 3-1 start. Go Hawks!
I'm so late almost no one will see this but cowherd finally admitted he was wrong!
“Pete Carroll’s been in Seattle 14 years. This is the fourth version of his Seahawks. Most coaches — good coaches — struggle to pivot once or twice. He’s pivoted four times. … Pete Carroll knows how to coach. I was very hard on him during the last few years of (Russell Wilson) and Pete Carroll, I was clearly wrong. He saw things with Russ that clearly worried him. All four versions of Pete Carroll’s Seahawks, they’ve all made the playoffs. That’s remarkable.”
Just watched that video. It felt like redemption of sorts. I think he's a HOF coach already, but Colin's right. If he gets another SB win, it's a lock.
I think we are all guilty of selective memory about 2013. Our defense's bend but don't break was maddening at times. They kept teams out of the end zone but gave up TONS of yards. Most of the games were unnecessarily close and sloppy. We led or were close to the top of the league in penalties. Russ was spectacular in spurts, mediocre more often but relatively secure with the football. They were amazing at being opportunistic with big plays on offense & defense at crucial times in the game. There are plenty of things to criticize about this team, but like in 2013, there is an intangible grittiness, confidence & overactive competitiveness that keeps them in games until something breaks their way. This is looking like a textbook Pete Carroll team...maddening and entertaining at the same time, but usually on top when it's done. I think injuries are the only thing that can keep this group from being special. I mean honestly, has anyone ever seem a nickel corner take over a game. Textbook Pete.
When they played well ,they were healthy and had a good Nickel corner , when they didn't have the good nickel they weren't so good!
Back then (2013), I recall the Non-Seahawk naysayer friends ribbing me as the game would wind down and it looked to be a sure loss. Every time I'd reply to the diss by calmly sayin "Don't ever count these guys out" and BOOM! miracles happened. Recovered on-side kicks. Kearse landing on his back at the goal line and the disrupted pass falling onto his lap. More often than not I got to cooly shrug and say "I told you not to count them out" followed by "Pay up". Been here ever since. Aaron Rodger's look of disbelief is still with me... and so is Pete Carroll.
I was worried about this game. This was going to be the third game that the Seahawks were down both tackles so there was a lot of film on what the Seahawks were doing. The Giants had a 10 days to prepare. Wink is not a bad DC and the Giants defense was pissed. I expected a long night on the offensive side of the ball and did not expect Seattle to break 20 points. If you had told me the Seahawks would loose both guards during the game, I would have revised that to 10 points. (The offense put themselves in position to score 10 to 13). What I did not count on was the defense. Yes the Giant offense without Barkley has no engine and but for 2 quarters in Arizona would be the worst in the league. Still to this point the Seahawks defense had been the easiest to throw on in the league, and I was worried that Jones would throw for 200 and run for 100 and the Seahawks would loose a low scoring game. Instead watching last night last night, it felt like I was back in 2012 watching a young defense smoother an opponent. The key to that was not a dominate pass Rush but the ability to stop the run while still covering the middle of the field on pass plays. The Giants and Jones knew their offensive line was also banged up and that he needed to get the ball out quickly, but he held the ball. To quote Arik Armstead "Daniel Jones I am so disappointed in you.... why would you throw the ball so quick vs us and let these people have a career day?... why weren't we deserving? Without seeing the all 22, Arik I think I have an answer - his first read was covered.
And Yes the Giants receivers don't strike fear into NFL defensive backs. But neither do the Panthers receivers and they had a very good day against Seattle despite a suspect line. So what changed? Answer - Witherspoon moved inside. Witherspoon looks like the truth. The play that stood out for me was not Daniel Jones gifting him a pick six with the assist of from Woolen (that dude can run). No the play that made me a believer was the bluffing coverage and blitzing that was beautiful. Commentators engage in a lot of hype but I don't think Ryan Clark was hyping when he observed how naturally Witherspoon plays the middle of the field. Like Sherman, Witherspoon knows what is going to happen before it happens, he hits like Cam but with perfect form. Last night his impact was that of Earl Thomas. ET was the key to the LB because he took away deep middle of the field making it possible to smother opponents at the line of scrimmage. Last night Witherspoon took away the short middle of the field allowing the Seahawks to smoother the Giants.
When they drafted Witherspoon I could not figure out where he would play. He was built like a safety rather than an outside corner and the Seahawks had two highly paid and when healthy very good safeties. Moving to slot corner / short safety - he dominated and the Giants were suffocated by a 5' 10' 180 pound play. A defensive back built for the modern game. The result was an Oprah game for the defensive line - everybody gets a sack. If Adams can stay healthy and we get back our full compliment of corners, the defense might turn out better than I thought.
That being said it was the Giants and I agree that the team I saw last night would not beat the 49ers, the Eagles or even the Cowboys. In fact with 4 reserve linemen and the center playing guard the Seahawks would not have beaten the Lions even with an improved defense. But the Seahawks don't have to play them right now. The next month is the Bengal's, the Cardinals and the Browns. The Seahawks don't have to be there best version to win those games. They just need to win so that they can get healthy.
At his press conference Pete said "we are just getting started." I remember that phrase from back in 2012 and 2013. Back then the Seahawks got better as the season progressed. Last night was ugly but it still give me reason to think he might be right. Last year the Seahawks won while rebuilding this year they need to win while getting healthy. I am not sure I am a believer yet but I am starting to hope.
Having a good Nickel!!!
Lot of good points in there.
One thing that Joe has pointed out a ton and I think was the case last year is that the defense did not have any blue chip talent. I think they collectively had some pretty good players. Maybe Woolen could get there? But seeing Spoon play last night is why it is so important. Having that type of player makes the rest of the pretty good players even better.
It is just incredibly hard and important to get those guys. And we may have got one. Fingers crossed.
>>Having that type of player makes the rest of the pretty good players even better.<< To athletes, it is contagious, especially coming from a guy not ideally built to make such an impact. Last night, Spoon put a hit on their RB that puts others in the Tent. These Rookies are bringing the contagion, as we saw when DK complemented Bobo on moves he's not seen and is learning from. Bobo was genuinely surprised to hear that.
This was the game I wanted us to have vs the Panthers. To go out and just dunk on a bad OLine and team, make the clear statement of intent. But still not going to get too carried away, there are still BIG F*CKING ISSUES that will be horribly exposed by good teams and the playoffs. For a week however i'll let myself get a little swept up in the Sack Race and joy of bullying the Giants.
Good article and great comments from the peanut gallery. Good work, everyone.
Obviously loved Spoon (that Spoon, that Spoon, that Spoon…) and an unreal # of sacks.
3-1 is awesome, after that first game where they shat themselves in the 2nd half.
Was anyone else hoping to see Lock start the 2nd half? I think that was a missed opportunity to see what he could do after a halftime break to be ready and focus on running the offense.
They were playing the GIANTS! They were in control, even though they hadn’t put them away by a long shot. I think Lock could have managed the game as well as Geno did. I’m not calling for Geno to lose his job..yet.. but don’t we know what he can do?
And to say he was “adequate” or “not awesome “ is just to say he didn’t turn the ball over or lose the game. What if Spoon hadn’t had the pick 6? Would Geno had suddenly come to life and finished a drive longer than 40 yards?
I will stop on him for now, but our schedule gets pretty rough down the road.
Hopefully, a bye week and some healthy returns help them take their next step forward.GO HAWKS!!
I am putting our sad record of 3rd down conversions on any QB. He's The Man of the moment when he see's what is arrayed against him, knows what his options are, calls the adjustments and GOES. If all else fails, do as we saw an edgy Lock do and take it yourself. There's now an elephant in the room. Pete has some most serious realities to deal with. Soon enough, the Team will decide.
Yeah, coming out of the first four at 3-1 is amazing and the Seahawks have a gifted opportunity to beat a banged up Bengals team. Must take advantage.
Vegas wasn't built by setting bad lines ... Make no mistake about it: The Giants opened as the (slight) favorites in this game. Yes, I think it was a bad line but you still got to respect what they are seeing. And what they are seeing is cluster injuries to the offensive line in Seattle against a good defensive line in Giants.
I'm not sure what Jake Curhan needs to do? He is 7-1 as a starter and is a mauler in run offense. The man is getting paid less than 1 million dollars a year. He just went up against on the road to Aiden Hutchinson (2nd overall pick!), Derrick Brown (7th overall pick) / Brian Burns (makes $16M a year), and on the road and for some reason the Hawks stuck him on an island against Kayvon Thibodeaux (5th overall pick). I would have to check but I think he has given up a total of 2 sacks. And those 2 sacks we don't know are on him or the running backs not chipping.
Also, the Giants made the playoffs last year. In no way shape or form did anyone in or around football think that the Giants were anywhere near the worst team in the league. That is what the Seahawks did to them last night.
In the NFL, there will always be weird games. That is the nature of the game. Refs affect outcomes of games. We are likely to go the rest of the year without another holding call on a run play - we had 3 (only 1 was legit on DK). We had a false start on a play that every center does every week on the snap. And we had a lineman down field by inches (unclear if that was Curhan's fault or just unlucky).
At the end of the day, all that matters is winning. Geno didn't necessarily play great and didn't necessarily play bad (no turnovers or even close) - but he did play well enough to win. Lock came in and did what needed to be down to win. Olu Olu did what needed to be down to win. All the Hawks did what it took to win, and win by a large margin. That is great to see. Not every game can and will be beautiful.
The things that I would like to see changed. I think it is time to move Charbs (or Dallas) above Ken for short yardage situations. The drive to start the second half was forced to a 4th down because K9 didn't pick it up in a relatively easy situation. Charbs/Dallas get that every time. And I don't want K9 to change, I like the home run hitter, just not at bat when you need a single. We know he has a low success rate.
Finishing drives is gonna be something Pete will undoubtedly talk about with Shane/Geno. They need to get on the same page with the lead in the 4th quarter. Thats twice now.
Overall, the doom and gloomers about the Seahawks have been proven wrong again. After week 1 they are now 3 -1, handled business with a backup line and will get healthier as the year goes on.
Awesome work! Go Hawks!
I want to see us win and advance in the Playoffs this year. 3 out of 10 tries at 3rd down conversions may get us to the Playoffs, but that will be as far as we go. Every healthy player was on the field for us last night because they earned the right to be there through competition. That applies to all but QB. I understand the position comes with special considerations. Last night was the first time we saw what Drew Lock brings now, and I liked what I saw, especially as regards 3rd downs. We may make note of the 40-0 drubbing the Cowboys gave the Giants recently, at home in Dallas. Our Defense exceeded the efforts their defense gave to the Giants, on the road in New Jersey, no less. Geno will no doubt lead us in 2 weeks, hobbled or not. Loyalties and teamwork demand it. In the first Playoff Game, the Season stats are recorded and contract stipulations will be behind us. I now know we have a backup QB capable of advancing us beyond the first round. Let's hope Geno solves the 3rd down conundrum and gets his big payday. I will cheer for that to happen and be a better person for doing so. All I know is I saw a damn good back-up last night and am damn hopeful a visit to the Super Bowl is a distinct possibility.
I have been high on Lock as anyone. I don't think he was ever a throw in in the RW trade. I think that JS liked him in the draft and has kept tabs on his career. He has a canon for an arm, is athletic, and is the prototypical size. I think the Seahawks see him as a potential franchise QB. You saw a glimpse last night.
The questions can the Hawks play with the big boys in the NFL are fair! However, I do not underrate how hard it is to win week in and week out in the NFL. Also, taking care of business against a (potentially) lesser opponent is a good trait to have.
I personally do not think we are there yet (to the tier 1 class in the NFL) but I also think we are only in year 2 of the rebuild. The rebuild should climax when the rookies get to their 3rd and 4th years. That will be next year and the following.
I think the org has a very tough and important decision to make this offseason (unless Geno falls apart before then). Stick with Geno? Move to Lock? Or draft a QB? The team will have a lot of pieces in place to win the SB in 2024 and 2025.
I think they are going with Lock and I think that has been the plan or at least one plan the whole time.
"Vegas wasn't built by setting bad lines ... Make no mistake about it: The Giants opened as the (slight) favorites in this game." LV isn't in the business of predicting scores, their goal is to keep the betting even.
Yeah ... that is right. But they also aren't trying to get buried by Sharp money by throwing out a bad line. They may have here, as the market did take it to Hawks -2/-2.5 by kick. That also could've been due to injury news or both.
I think my point is still valid. The Hawks made this look like an easy game, I don't think most people thought it would be. And if you did, get to a sportsbook and lay it down. Give the Hawks credit for going on the road and kicking ass against what the markets believed was going to be a close game. A playoff team off a mini bye at home in Primetime. And although the line or offense didn't play great, I would hardly say the offense / offensive line got their asses kicked.
Just because the point spread moved 3 to 3.5 points in one direction doesn't mean the casinos lost money on a bad initial line. We would need more information than that.
I had some random thoughts during the game that the defense against the run was great except for containing Daniel Jones when a play broke down. He had to be their leading rusher. But the 'Hawks have always had trouble with extremely mobile QBs in this regard. Also, I think the lack of great pass defense in the secondary has more to do with the coaches schemes than the players. The refs were the Giants best friends throughout the game and, when the occasional penalty was called on them, Brian Dabol should have been smiling instead of complaining. I can't remember that bed of officiating since the Seahawks were beaten by the officials in their first super bowl appearance. Spoon is already great and just going to get better. Be great to get Tre Brown back out there with Witherspoon and Woolen.
Concussions happen and Adams will ne back after the bye week. Things are looking up for the "D" and, like a lot of others, I wanted Lock to finish the game. He just seems to bring more dynamism into the mix.
Very odd officiating game. I don't see that very often but it does happen.
I am cautiously optimistic about the defense. At least you could finally see the vision and it looked good. Also, along with Spoon, thought Love played great. If you think Adams can be anywhere near the player he used to be, now you got Spoon and Adams that are very violent/attacking players on defense. Tone setters who have the ability to generate negative plays (sacks, tackles for losses, etc).
Exciting stuff .. but just one game.
As for Lock, I don't see him overtaking Geno unless things get real ugly. However, I do think the Seahawks are grooming him for the future. Remember this is only year 2 of the rebuild and we are really shooting for the 3rd and 4th years of the rookie classes. That will be the time the franchise has the hard decision to stick with Geno? Go with Lock? Or draft a rookie to airdrop into an already good team.
To toot me, I did write before the season that the Giants looked like one of the worst teams in the league to me. I could have said that before the 2022 season also and they did make the playoffs, so there's that.
I do think it's something to say that Thibodeaux has his best career game against you. Ignore the draft status, yes he is talented (way more talented than Curhan), but it's not like a good thing to "activate" a player who had been struggling so badly.
Jake Curhan is an above average backup tackle, there you go, because most teams don't even have two good starting tackles to begin with.
Well... that is a good call on the Giants as they are 0-4 against the spread.
If you are saying that Curhan activated Thibs ... what can be said about the entire Giants line? The Hawks coming into the game had one of the worst Defenses in the NFL. If Curhan was "awful" (don't think anyone agrees including Pete) is there even a word in the English language to accurately describe the Giants?
https://x.com/BradyHenderson/status/1709256401162563850?s=20
I don't think anyone thinks we can win long term with Stone and Jake. But those dudes coming in and helping the club get 3 wins and keeping the season on track is HUGE. Big props to them, IMO.
You're probably right
You are the best Joe.
Keep those receipts on Spoon! I remember reading all your articles around the draft. Very exciting to predict it correctly and then see the on-field play.
Blue Chipper?
Beautiful is in the eye of the beholder. 38-35 is a sloppy mess, but last night’s game was a thing of beauty!
Haha ... good point! Judging by Pete’s post game interview ... I think he would agree!
I think Pete wants that defense every game with a final score of 13-12 after a last second Seahawks FG. My heart can’t take many more of those, but I can definitely take more like last night.
I’m not an analytics guy, but I know their preference for going for it on 4th down, short yardage. My limited sample size from the Hawks games isn’t totally convincing me. A stop on those plays might fire the defense up more than success does the offense.
Detroit missed on a couple, which energized the Hawks while depriving themselves of points in a game that ended tied.
Last night the Giants tried one early and failed which visibly inspired the Seahawks defense. The Hawks failed on one when a FG would have given a 2 TD lead. And then, even more ominously for analytics and Giants, the Giants converted an attempt rather than kick a FG that would have narrowed the gap to 8 points. That success opened the door for the fatal offensive error of a 97 yard pick six by Witherspoon. I don’t know if analytics factors in the chance of future calamity resulting from a successful conversion.
I know it’s a small sample size and I probably remember the bad results more than the good ones. However, I’m not 100% convinced that the risk/reward really favors the gambling style.
"I don’t know if analytics factors in the chance of future calamity resulting from a successful conversion."
I'm not sure they should factor that in much. How much should they factor in not kicking a FG once in range on 1st down?
The analytic arguments for going for it on fourth down make a good broad point: Coaches should do it more often. But the anals get far too doctrinaire—they seem to refuse to recognize that football has an infinite combination of situations and conditions, meaning that a coach’s feel for any given fourth down must inevitably come into play. Plus—and I’ve asked for it—they cannot correlate going for it more with offensive efficiency or wins or anything else.
110 throwing yards for Geno - 0 rushing
63 throwing yards for Lock - 11 rushing
The only yards Geno can boast are the 6 yards that were gifted to him when the defense recovered the fumble at their 6 yard line in the last seconds of the 1st quarter and put points on the board. Geno was nowhere on the field for the remainder of the scores. How many times was he sacked?
That hit he took to his knees was bad. When it happened I felt the pain in my own knees knowing that kind of action simply isn't something our knees can handle without extreme pain and injury. He wasn't needed on the field based on how he had been playing, so why he insisted on whatever short-term fix they delivered in the locker room under the pretense of x-rays was stupid and Pete should have refused to let him have his helmet back. The Hawks didn't win because of anything he did. IMHO
K9 is always fun to watch. Witherspoon is superhuman on the field. Wagner managed to get mentioned a couple of times last night. Poor Jones is going to have the name Witherspoon trigger PTSD for the rest of his life.
A win is a win, but I really had a hard time not wishing that game was over at halftime.
I liked what I saw of Lock, but most of his yardage came on one pass to Fant. He didn’t have as high a completion percentage as Geno and he wasn’t crunched out of bounds like Geno. I’m not a Geno apologist, I know he’s not an A+ QB, but he’s at least a solid B+. The team likes him and the coaches like him. I’m willing to wait for a final verdict until after the OL gets healthy, knowing that the Hawks have a solid backup QB to use confidently if the need arises.
We also have to remember that it’s just the beginning of his second season starting for the Seahawks. Even most of the great QBs didn’t win a Super Bowl in their first season as starter, so there’s still hope.
I was unimpressed. But, we don’t how Lock would have fared across the entire game. I’ve got reservations about Geno, but I’d still like to see how he fares with an intact OL.
I think we’re only talking about last night.
The hit to the knees was painful and I honestly don’t know how he didn’t break his ankles. It looked like Geno had the ankles in the only position that doesn’t break them, I don’t know if that’s training or luck. I was nothing more than a sandlot athlete and I had notoriously injury prone ankles, so maybe it’s just me. I’m still not sure that wasn’t a personal foul on the defender. I’m also not sure about the rough tackle on Lockett or the blind side shove while the scrum was watching the punt roll to a stop.
This was a quintessential Pete game. Adequate, balanced, no turnover offense. Good special teams. Great defense! I know the defense was still suspect on 3rd down, but 11 sacks and 3 turnovers qualifies as great to me and Pete.
Geno was just ok, but after a questionable play that could have drawn a personal foul penalty, he gutted out a tough night. He didn’t win the game, but he also didn’t lose it. Classic game manager night. It was obvious he was angry that the foul wasn’t called and that a foul wasn’t called when Lockett was slammed out of bounds. His worst play was the near interception right after his legs were rolled up out of bounds. But he persevered and I suspect his fiery attitude encouraged his teammates. Lock looked good in his limited time and I would probably have kept him in longer.
DeeJay looked improved as a returner, Dickson continues to be a great punter, the return team was great, and Meyers was ok (solid kickoffs, but a long missed FG).
Witherspoon was a revelation- brutal tackles, 2 sacks! 97 yard pick six! What more could you want? He reminded me of a Kam/Earl hybrid, he was everywhere and brought the thunder! There will be a lot of his jerseys sold today! Maybe one for me. And a total of 11 sacks by the D, wow! I said it last night on the thread, but if they can get 1/2 that in games on a routine basis they will change games.
I've been asking for a Witherspoon throwback jersey since the throwback's were revealed. Felt there was something about him that reminds me of the only other jersey I've bought for myself (Chancellor)
Kam/Earl hybrid......I like that.
My original post ended up being pretty negative. I deleted that. OK, most of that.
I won't forget that Pete claimed he brought in Ken Norton Jr as DC specifically to "fix fundamentals." Like tackling, Actually, specifically tackling. That was in 2018. This has been a problem through THREE defensive coordinators. Tackling doesn't mean 2, 3, 4 defenders contacting a ballcarrier before taking that player down. That's bad. I recall when the Seahawks could tackle. Those are cool memories.
Pretty sure 90% of the reason Daniel Jones got that extension is because he looks like Eli Manning.
Devon Witherspoon has more sacks than Jalen Carter.
Jalen Carter is in the perfect place for Jalen Carter to be, I have zero doubt, but this is gold.
3 and 1 going into the break sure feels good. Watching the defense come together and do some damage was a lot of fun. Something seems to be happening with the fourth down plays, we’re going for it and although it’s not always successful, I like the idea. My memory isn’t as good as it once was but I think Carrol has gone on 4th down more often in the last two games than maybe in any whole season prior. And, how about already being up by 2 scores last week going for a 2 point conversion. What’s going on?
A coming out night for the D, for sure, even with the early Jamal exit. Defensive Rookie of the Year (and maybe Defensive Player of the Year) Witherspoon is a revelation and I will say it again that I did "see" his first INT coming this game! Witherspoon will become the "Kam" of this defence and maybe earlier than I thought.
On offense though, wow that was bad. I will give Geno a bit of a pass because of the injury but the execution was not there. I wonder how it all changes though if K9's first touchdown is allowed to stand? What a great play that was by K9 to maintain his balance, "butt cheek" notwithstanding (I still didn't see it on frame by frame replay). The referreeing was awful. Those holding calls--some of them were phantom calls. The broadcast did not do a replay of the Parkinson "hold" but he was pissed about it.
Lock came in cold and I thought still looked good. Uncharacteristic drops by JSN and Lockett and he still converted a 3rd and 10. His athleticism showed out on a run for a first down also. Lock led the longest scroing drive of the night, and it wasn't close.
If the Seahawks can ever get the offense rolling like the D was tonight, LOOK OUT.
Bradford's had 1 on Walker's sweep that was nothing, DK's was debateable, but Evan Brown's "false start" was an inexcusably bad call. The refs have to see centers pointing and turning heads all the time. He had no jerky movements. It's almost like that ref was a "new guy" who didn't know the way games are officiated in game situations.
On that one drive in the first half that had 4 in a row, at least 2 were bad calls.
But, the team overcame. I was really impressed that they got the 1st down after all that (even though it didn't stand). I thought it was a real good accomplishment for the offense.
Yep, that's the thing with penalties--they can be random events and it is how you react to them as a team that is the important thing. The Seahawks overcame them in the game which is to their credit.