Been gone for quite awhile- Been sick- Anyway in regards to the O-line ,it isn't as difficult as everyone makes it out ot be IMHO- Either they can run block or pass block or both in college it is mostly who do they play against there-? Competiton! Footwork and hand usage! I have a difficult time understanding why it is so hard to find these guys- I think a portion of the problem is the new analytics used so much - To heck with that either the guy can do his job against good competition or he doesn't - Does he take plays off? Does he get winded easily? Does he use his and see things outside of the call ? That is where the center is so important and playing together over time becomes even more so! Ask any former NFL O-linemen and they all say playing together is ONE of the most important issues! So Go get a proven Center and Draft a guard and then you have four or five guys to fill the other guard and back up center role - It isn't Rocket Science!
Another comment and I think we heard from this summary. I read this season in multiple spots and posted here and JS basically saying it. College OLine especially interior, isn’t “good”. The pros who scout etc have been saying it. Between the way college ball is today (I personally call it Madden play) the OLine is deficient. NFL doesn’t play like Madden. Talent just too high. Second is the CBA. No hitting. PC talked about this over the years. No hitting in camp stunts growth of OLine. Skill players don’t need it. Speed players don’t need it. Big huge dudes in space need it. Likely why JS likes the new coaches. Teach because the OLine and more specifically the interior are “stunted” in their growth. Elite studs always will be studs. But oh come we see so many guys “all pro” who took a couple years to get there? An example of this in my opinion, thanks to someone here who watched Laumea at Utah. Can’t remember who on this group educated us, but we saw some very good things from him. And also tons of rookie mistakes.
It was me - I kept talking up Laumea from before camp- He was a Road grader at Utah and in his short stint played the best RG we had all year .Ok , Not that he was great because as I stated before he was a much better run Blocker than pass pro guy- But he has the hands and the footwork ,so he can be taught how to pass pro- AND Now they have finally hired a couple of guys that have a track record of teaching O-linemen there craft! GO HAWKS!!!
Thanks and noticed, and SJ talks it up here, we learn from each other. I loved your post draft comments. I see quality in him. I’m a lot like JS who during his comments that SJ discussed mentioned he doesn’t watch the ball much he watches the lines. Being a prior youth official as head linesman, I too often watch line play more than the ball. I liked what I saw. And I also saw rookie mistakes and more importantly, players who had not played with each other to know tendencies etc. One play, an attribute pressure that everyone says “OLine sucks” was clearly an issue of Lucas and Lameau not playing with each other. DE rushed at Abe putting him back. Olu had NT blocked. Lameau guy ends up dropping back. DE then immediately shifts inside. Abe had no block and Lameau wasn’t aware until late. DE shifts in over powers. Geno pressure. Fans who don’t watch or learn “OLine sucks”. It was lack of knowledge and togetherness. Had this been guys who played every play from camp through week 12 together, likely block happens.
Side note. Lewis is LG not RG. Per “grazing sites” Lewis did play high level (upper quarter) of all guards. Another successful OLine pick of Seattle by the way fans. But as you show us SJ, “million of dollars is very significant”. Thanks SJ for listening in. Been sick so couldn’t come up with energy to listen to JS. Appreciate your review.
Regarding Geno' and a very big over pay if he is extended. If the goal is to possible make the playoffs or is it to get to the SB? If the ultimate goal is the SB then Geno isnt going to get us there. He has one year left on his contract which gives the Hawks time to find a young, mobile QB. Let's remember that we got to the SB with a less than mediocre OL. Dangerruss Wilson's escape ability neutralized the lines deficiencies.
I don't think there is any upside to Tomlinson and Bradford. JS needs to sign two proven, veteran lineman, one must be a center.
I would say that the statement is really, what’s the difference? Are we going to overrpay a guard and lose a defensive tackle? No, were going to get the player we think is the better talent. It’s the same in the draft. Should you draft a worse player because he plays a certain position?”
I for one am glad we resigned Big Cat over Damien Lewis. We got a win last year from Williams almost by himself. Dropping the guard to keep the better talent at defensive tackle is a no brainer, no matter how bad the o line was.
I think Rashaad Penny would’ve been a great pic if he hadn’t gotten hurt so much. Very explosive powerful running back quick good vision. If Nick Chubb would’ve gotten hurt more, Saquon Barkley kept getting hurt then they wouldn’t be where they were.
I realize I'm nothing more than an idiot who's stumbled on a free mock draft simulator and has been stuck home in the snow for too many days this month. But I am also, constitutionally, a synthesist. So let me try to build an argument.
(1) Grey Zabel is not simply everybody's favorite draft crush, he's also one of the highest graded IOL in a zone blocking scheme (I have no idea what that is; OK, a glimmer). He projects best to center but can play guard as well, and even tackle as a fill-in.
(2) Coach K has said Center is the key position to making his offense work.
(3) If we sign a FA center that takes money away from other positions, whereas, if we find one in the first round, they're on a rookie contract. Also, they seem to be in relatively short supply.
(4) Dane Brugler (sp?) said somewhere that the difference between 12-40 in player grades is minimal. Some of it will be scheme-specific, some of it will have to do with injury reports, and some of it will have to do with scouting differences.
All that said, convince me (if he's who he's said to be, and I have no way to evaluate that) that it doesn't make sense for the Seahawks to go ahead and take Zabel at 18. Or, even, maybe, drop down a couple positions and do it there.
It's interesting watching John try to say as little as possible for 20 mins each week. His comments about coaches, scouts and process are worthwhile, but strategy, players, and positions......he just isn't going to tip his hand. So he says a whole lot of nothing. There are a few nuggets from time to time, but not many.
The comments about Penny aren't a 'flex' in my opinion. They speak to the process. As much criticism as John gets for certain draft picks or trades, people need to understand these are decisions made in the building, not by John sitting in his office. He listens to other coaches, personnel people, scouts, analytics guys/gals......everybody. These are group decisions. John has to sign off on them of course, so he's ultimately accountable, but he's not the only brain that contributes to decisions. It's a team sport. He's not going to go get a player Mike Mac doesn't want. Not going to happen.
The guy that is really starting to stick in my brain at 1.18 is Nick Emmanwori, a 6' 3" 225 lb safety from South Carolina. I know that safety isn't a 'need' per se, but man, does he look like a Seahawk. He isn't as big as Cam, but man oh man can he move and hit. We have 2 solid safeties already, but this guy could be a difference maker. Mike Mac might see him as a weapon. He could be the tip of the spear in those 3 safety looks he likes to use. It would be a prime example of value over need.
If he has a good combine (he will) he may not even be there to draft.
The Hawks don't have anyone on the roster built like Emmanwori (I don't expect Jenkins to be around next season), so I could see MM and JS targeting him or some other big strong safety type. Love and Coby are great to have, but both have more of the free-safety-middle-fielder body type and play strengths. I'm sure MM would love to have a guy at SS more suited to playing near the LOS.
The show is about the nuts-and-bolts of being a GM. In that respect, it’s interesting. Nonetheless, his observations about how to build an OL weren’t encouraging.
Interesting statement about Penny—it did seem like a passive aggressive jab at analytics. The thing was, one major advantage touted of Penny initially was that he seemed more likely to stay healthy. Chubb did have injury problems in college and Penny was injury free. Then they get to the NFL and Penny suddenly would twist an ankle stepping on the chalk sideline. I don’t know how anyone can be faulted for that particular issue, which seems like some bad luck.
Analytics is fine - BUT- I would go with what i see on film and what the coaches and trainers and towel guys have to say more than Freakin Analytics! Especially on the O-line -either the guy has base , footwork, and hands or he doesn't. Plus how they play and react to being against top notch guys from the D-line in college, I believe tells you WAY more than any Freakin Analytics could ever come around about!
Yes, interesting comment that I happen to ascribe to. Trust your eyes. Analytics are a good guide, but actually seeing what’s in front of you works best IMO.
I think Joes right on the money about the Damien Lewis comments. That is rough to see him go and probably frustrating.
Posted this on the other comments section but lineman trend better up to about age 30. We have to keep these guys we draft but to JS/Joes point it also can’t come at a too high cost. Which is to say frustrating
I could see him being in trouble if this coming year goes bad- BUT, I don't see that happening. As long as the O-line is addressed this coming year ought to be a fun time for us Seahawks fans!
This is the same GM that continuously overpays for tight ends, safeties and linebackers, despite there being more parity and supply of those. JS can't see his own blind spots.
To be fair, we don’t know how much overpay on those positions were orders from Pete. It does seem the team this year is moving to a more reasonable position on LB and safety salaries. I suppose Fant is overpaid, but that might not be for long either.
Agree. His comments about the guards (and in effect, centers) amounted to a whole lot of tap dancing (not to mention a curious grasp of supply and demand). They came down to “we’re going to keep doing what we’ve been doing only this time we’re going to get it right”. I.e., draft late for traits and then coach them up. How has that been working for them (and us)?
Based on track record, I can’t think of a single reason why any fan should have confidence in Schneider being able to build a credible IOL.
C’mon man. Give the guy a little time. To be fully transparent, I’m still on the fence about him. But geez, he’s only just severed from the very strong personality, Pete, and 1 (one!) season into a new coach and hasn’t even started with the even newer coaches. I think he at least deserves this season to see if his ideas and management work.
Look no further than the SB champion Eagles. Their fan base has been crying out all season to fire Hurts. There are videos up and down the internet of fans leaving the stadium upset at their QB and wanting him fired. Is that any different than the Hawks? Should Roseman have fired Hurts becuase of some fans.
This is no different that Russ pre–SB. RW was very controversial starting QB in Seattle.
Having the fan base not like the QB is not polarizing or abnormal ... it is the most typical aspect of NFL life.
I would imagine Ravens blogs are similar ... and that is with a 2-time MVP. They will say ... Lamar can't win the big one. Need a new QB.
In Buffalo, I know they have been calling for Josh Allen for years. Not sure if they still are but too many turnovers... Runs too much. Etc,
Basically, every fan base that doesn't have a Super Bowl winning QB ... will likely have a decent amount of people complaining about the QB. The phrase "The most popular person in a city is the backup QB." comes to mind.
It is what it is. I think JS is just saying that is kind of the norm. I think it is just what the HC/QB/GM have to operate with until they win a SB, then the QB will get some grace.
Been gone for quite awhile- Been sick- Anyway in regards to the O-line ,it isn't as difficult as everyone makes it out ot be IMHO- Either they can run block or pass block or both in college it is mostly who do they play against there-? Competiton! Footwork and hand usage! I have a difficult time understanding why it is so hard to find these guys- I think a portion of the problem is the new analytics used so much - To heck with that either the guy can do his job against good competition or he doesn't - Does he take plays off? Does he get winded easily? Does he use his and see things outside of the call ? That is where the center is so important and playing together over time becomes even more so! Ask any former NFL O-linemen and they all say playing together is ONE of the most important issues! So Go get a proven Center and Draft a guard and then you have four or five guys to fill the other guard and back up center role - It isn't Rocket Science!
Another comment and I think we heard from this summary. I read this season in multiple spots and posted here and JS basically saying it. College OLine especially interior, isn’t “good”. The pros who scout etc have been saying it. Between the way college ball is today (I personally call it Madden play) the OLine is deficient. NFL doesn’t play like Madden. Talent just too high. Second is the CBA. No hitting. PC talked about this over the years. No hitting in camp stunts growth of OLine. Skill players don’t need it. Speed players don’t need it. Big huge dudes in space need it. Likely why JS likes the new coaches. Teach because the OLine and more specifically the interior are “stunted” in their growth. Elite studs always will be studs. But oh come we see so many guys “all pro” who took a couple years to get there? An example of this in my opinion, thanks to someone here who watched Laumea at Utah. Can’t remember who on this group educated us, but we saw some very good things from him. And also tons of rookie mistakes.
It was me - I kept talking up Laumea from before camp- He was a Road grader at Utah and in his short stint played the best RG we had all year .Ok , Not that he was great because as I stated before he was a much better run Blocker than pass pro guy- But he has the hands and the footwork ,so he can be taught how to pass pro- AND Now they have finally hired a couple of guys that have a track record of teaching O-linemen there craft! GO HAWKS!!!
Thanks and noticed, and SJ talks it up here, we learn from each other. I loved your post draft comments. I see quality in him. I’m a lot like JS who during his comments that SJ discussed mentioned he doesn’t watch the ball much he watches the lines. Being a prior youth official as head linesman, I too often watch line play more than the ball. I liked what I saw. And I also saw rookie mistakes and more importantly, players who had not played with each other to know tendencies etc. One play, an attribute pressure that everyone says “OLine sucks” was clearly an issue of Lucas and Lameau not playing with each other. DE rushed at Abe putting him back. Olu had NT blocked. Lameau guy ends up dropping back. DE then immediately shifts inside. Abe had no block and Lameau wasn’t aware until late. DE shifts in over powers. Geno pressure. Fans who don’t watch or learn “OLine sucks”. It was lack of knowledge and togetherness. Had this been guys who played every play from camp through week 12 together, likely block happens.
Side note. Lewis is LG not RG. Per “grazing sites” Lewis did play high level (upper quarter) of all guards. Another successful OLine pick of Seattle by the way fans. But as you show us SJ, “million of dollars is very significant”. Thanks SJ for listening in. Been sick so couldn’t come up with energy to listen to JS. Appreciate your review.
Regarding Geno' and a very big over pay if he is extended. If the goal is to possible make the playoffs or is it to get to the SB? If the ultimate goal is the SB then Geno isnt going to get us there. He has one year left on his contract which gives the Hawks time to find a young, mobile QB. Let's remember that we got to the SB with a less than mediocre OL. Dangerruss Wilson's escape ability neutralized the lines deficiencies.
I don't think there is any upside to Tomlinson and Bradford. JS needs to sign two proven, veteran lineman, one must be a center.
I would say that the statement is really, what’s the difference? Are we going to overrpay a guard and lose a defensive tackle? No, were going to get the player we think is the better talent. It’s the same in the draft. Should you draft a worse player because he plays a certain position?”
I for one am glad we resigned Big Cat over Damien Lewis. We got a win last year from Williams almost by himself. Dropping the guard to keep the better talent at defensive tackle is a no brainer, no matter how bad the o line was.
I think Rashaad Penny would’ve been a great pic if he hadn’t gotten hurt so much. Very explosive powerful running back quick good vision. If Nick Chubb would’ve gotten hurt more, Saquon Barkley kept getting hurt then they wouldn’t be where they were.
I realize I'm nothing more than an idiot who's stumbled on a free mock draft simulator and has been stuck home in the snow for too many days this month. But I am also, constitutionally, a synthesist. So let me try to build an argument.
(1) Grey Zabel is not simply everybody's favorite draft crush, he's also one of the highest graded IOL in a zone blocking scheme (I have no idea what that is; OK, a glimmer). He projects best to center but can play guard as well, and even tackle as a fill-in.
(2) Coach K has said Center is the key position to making his offense work.
(3) If we sign a FA center that takes money away from other positions, whereas, if we find one in the first round, they're on a rookie contract. Also, they seem to be in relatively short supply.
(4) Dane Brugler (sp?) said somewhere that the difference between 12-40 in player grades is minimal. Some of it will be scheme-specific, some of it will have to do with injury reports, and some of it will have to do with scouting differences.
All that said, convince me (if he's who he's said to be, and I have no way to evaluate that) that it doesn't make sense for the Seahawks to go ahead and take Zabel at 18. Or, even, maybe, drop down a couple positions and do it there.
It's interesting watching John try to say as little as possible for 20 mins each week. His comments about coaches, scouts and process are worthwhile, but strategy, players, and positions......he just isn't going to tip his hand. So he says a whole lot of nothing. There are a few nuggets from time to time, but not many.
The comments about Penny aren't a 'flex' in my opinion. They speak to the process. As much criticism as John gets for certain draft picks or trades, people need to understand these are decisions made in the building, not by John sitting in his office. He listens to other coaches, personnel people, scouts, analytics guys/gals......everybody. These are group decisions. John has to sign off on them of course, so he's ultimately accountable, but he's not the only brain that contributes to decisions. It's a team sport. He's not going to go get a player Mike Mac doesn't want. Not going to happen.
The guy that is really starting to stick in my brain at 1.18 is Nick Emmanwori, a 6' 3" 225 lb safety from South Carolina. I know that safety isn't a 'need' per se, but man, does he look like a Seahawk. He isn't as big as Cam, but man oh man can he move and hit. We have 2 solid safeties already, but this guy could be a difference maker. Mike Mac might see him as a weapon. He could be the tip of the spear in those 3 safety looks he likes to use. It would be a prime example of value over need.
If he has a good combine (he will) he may not even be there to draft.
The Hawks don't have anyone on the roster built like Emmanwori (I don't expect Jenkins to be around next season), so I could see MM and JS targeting him or some other big strong safety type. Love and Coby are great to have, but both have more of the free-safety-middle-fielder body type and play strengths. I'm sure MM would love to have a guy at SS more suited to playing near the LOS.
Coby seems to always want the big hit rather than a sure tackle - Not my kind of player----
The show is about the nuts-and-bolts of being a GM. In that respect, it’s interesting. Nonetheless, his observations about how to build an OL weren’t encouraging.
Interesting statement about Penny—it did seem like a passive aggressive jab at analytics. The thing was, one major advantage touted of Penny initially was that he seemed more likely to stay healthy. Chubb did have injury problems in college and Penny was injury free. Then they get to the NFL and Penny suddenly would twist an ankle stepping on the chalk sideline. I don’t know how anyone can be faulted for that particular issue, which seems like some bad luck.
Analytics is fine - BUT- I would go with what i see on film and what the coaches and trainers and towel guys have to say more than Freakin Analytics! Especially on the O-line -either the guy has base , footwork, and hands or he doesn't. Plus how they play and react to being against top notch guys from the D-line in college, I believe tells you WAY more than any Freakin Analytics could ever come around about!
Yes, interesting comment that I happen to ascribe to. Trust your eyes. Analytics are a good guide, but actually seeing what’s in front of you works best IMO.
Penny didn’t miss a game in college. While I’ve got my criticisms of the Seahawks’ drafting, it’s hard to ding them for bad luck.
I think Joes right on the money about the Damien Lewis comments. That is rough to see him go and probably frustrating.
Posted this on the other comments section but lineman trend better up to about age 30. We have to keep these guys we draft but to JS/Joes point it also can’t come at a too high cost. Which is to say frustrating
https://x.com/bburkeespn/status/1892341353645830221?s=46&t=GOr4QVtKtJ8ZabyL8K_o7Q
I wonder what the explanation is. Something along the lines of the ability gained from experience outpacing a decline in athleticism, I guess.
I'm wondering if JS is in his last year, who might be a replacement in the near future??
I could see him being in trouble if this coming year goes bad- BUT, I don't see that happening. As long as the O-line is addressed this coming year ought to be a fun time for us Seahawks fans!
I hope it would someone connected to Mike McDonald. Maybe George Kokinis, Baltimore Ravens vice president of player personnel
This is the same GM that continuously overpays for tight ends, safeties and linebackers, despite there being more parity and supply of those. JS can't see his own blind spots.
To be fair, we don’t know how much overpay on those positions were orders from Pete. It does seem the team this year is moving to a more reasonable position on LB and safety salaries. I suppose Fant is overpaid, but that might not be for long either.
I don’t buy that Schneider took orders from Carroll and was otherwise passive.
Agree. His comments about the guards (and in effect, centers) amounted to a whole lot of tap dancing (not to mention a curious grasp of supply and demand). They came down to “we’re going to keep doing what we’ve been doing only this time we’re going to get it right”. I.e., draft late for traits and then coach them up. How has that been working for them (and us)?
Based on track record, I can’t think of a single reason why any fan should have confidence in Schneider being able to build a credible IOL.
I do think that if we see the same type of O-line next year JS's job will be on the block!!! as well as it should be !
C’mon man. Give the guy a little time. To be fully transparent, I’m still on the fence about him. But geez, he’s only just severed from the very strong personality, Pete, and 1 (one!) season into a new coach and hasn’t even started with the even newer coaches. I think he at least deserves this season to see if his ideas and management work.
Agreed, seems like JS is really stuck in his ways, which I would say is a detriment to the team's success. Maybe time for some new perspective
"The QB is always the most polarizing. "
I think this says it all right here.
Look no further than the SB champion Eagles. Their fan base has been crying out all season to fire Hurts. There are videos up and down the internet of fans leaving the stadium upset at their QB and wanting him fired. Is that any different than the Hawks? Should Roseman have fired Hurts becuase of some fans.
This is no different that Russ pre–SB. RW was very controversial starting QB in Seattle.
Having the fan base not like the QB is not polarizing or abnormal ... it is the most typical aspect of NFL life.
I would imagine Ravens blogs are similar ... and that is with a 2-time MVP. They will say ... Lamar can't win the big one. Need a new QB.
In Buffalo, I know they have been calling for Josh Allen for years. Not sure if they still are but too many turnovers... Runs too much. Etc,
Basically, every fan base that doesn't have a Super Bowl winning QB ... will likely have a decent amount of people complaining about the QB. The phrase "The most popular person in a city is the backup QB." comes to mind.
It is what it is. I think JS is just saying that is kind of the norm. I think it is just what the HC/QB/GM have to operate with until they win a SB, then the QB will get some grace.
Always fun to watch and see what happens.
My apologies for the typos!