Seattle Seahawks' franchise value is approximately $5.45 billion. I'm trying to think of other organizations that have a market value this high and have a single person with so much control. Lee Iacocca with Ford? Warren Buffett at Berkshire Hathaway? Steve Jobs at Apple?
I know this isn't the point of the article but I'm now choosing to believe that Dicko and Jody Allen have equal amounts of influence in the organisation
I don't know that John has any more or less power than 100 other people in the NFL. We don't really know the degrees of influence of particular owners, GM's, or coaches. I think JS runs the organization as a collaboration, so it's somewhat moot what he could do on his own. Many people in the building influence decisions. He is highly unlikely to bring players into the building that Mike Mac and the other coaches are not excited about. Tyrice Knight was a Mike Mac pick last year. Emmanwori seems like one of his picks this year. There are probably other examples. The coach is to a large degree setting the vision for who they are, what they are.....and JS has to bring the personnel in that fits and can execute on that vision. So who has more power?
As I said, I think it's moot. It's a dance between the Leaders within the organization, each influencing each other. The more of 'one mind' that they are, the quicker they can get aligned on direction and decisions. I think MacDonald and Kubiak are already FAR more aligned than Coach ever got with Grubb. Alignment usually leads to good outcomes, hence my optimism.
I remember JS's first press conference when a reporter asked him whether a certain player was one of his picks, and he quickly said something like 'That's not how we do things brother. It's not my pick, it's our pick', and I expect he hasn't changed a bit in that regard. Whatever power he has, he uses only to bring minds together to try to arrive at optimal outcomes. His ability to influence is great, no doubt. But his ears work more than his eyes and mouth, as all leaders should.
I'm loving what JS and the drafting team of coaches has done in the draft the past two drafts, more so than any draft since 2012. Can't wait for training camp and the preseason games to begin. John's job will just get harder when it's time to make the final cuts but he will have help from his very good (I assume) coaching staff.
It's my bet JS doesn't take a Say (by design) in which player goes and who stays, Charlie. That'll be something Mike and Aaron deal with. He does chat guys up in the locker room after games, probably to maintain a first-hand 'feel' for what the guys are thinking/feeling.
Reading what I'm translating for personal comprehension as "years in power" translating to "actual power" and reading the comparisons of JS holding solo power to Tomlin/Rooney shared is very interesting.
Looking over coaching/player changes since PC left. Along with the pace of those changes, can be seen as JS flexing that actual power over the final roster. Shipping out those seen as "PC guys," adding MM, and then knowing MM utilizes a complicated defense, trusts and works with MM to bring in the correct players to optimize the new defensive scheme. Aside a few mid-season changes like trading for Ernest Jones and moving Coby to Safety, the defense went from one of the worst to top half.
Then year 2 of power JS does the same thing on the offensive side, kubiak OC, geno Dk gone, drafted a OG in 1st round, added a FB, performed a throwback move and drafted a running QB in the 3rd round, (but this time he learned from his mistake and told his starting QB what he was doing before he did it lol). Whole offensive scheme change, adding players fit to optimize the scheme.
I don't know how the offense will do this year, but if JS handles it as well as he did the defense last year. We superbowl contenders in next year.
One of the best moves JS made was getting rid of two discontent players ( Geno and DK ) who didn't want to be Seahawks. Goodbye Geno and DK and don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out! Your me, myself and I attitude won't be missed, especially Geno's five red zone picks and DK's selfish drive killing penalties!
I really liked Geno, but if a player would rather play for another team? I’m immediately done with Geno. Goodbye, good riddance! In the words of Tony Soprano, “She’s (Geno) dead to me!”
I think it's been said before in other SSJ threads, but JS seems to be really good at getting plans formulated and working magic within the constraints of the cap and whatnot. The rub seems to be the players selected after all the sweet maneuvering. Just hit more often and all will be forgiven....
Kinda not getting the point of this one. I have no idea what it is like in the day to day running of the Seahawks as I’m not there. The best I can gather is indirect evidence from player and coach interviews, & most of those speak to a collaborative environment created by Schneider. I have not seen anything that points to a dictatorial or power hungry structure within the organization and yet that is kind of the insinuation here. There was a lot of speculation that John ran Pete out but I’ve never seen any actual evidence to that fact. Is there some damning evidence out there that I’m missing? John makes personnel decisions without consulting coaches & staff? Where is this coming from? Just curious. Tenure doesn’t turn you into Tony Saprano by default.
For example, I believe the trades of Geno & D.K. was doing those players a solid. He didn’t have to do either one. Neither player had any leverage. He could have played hard ball for the “sake of the organization” but he didn’t. He also didn’t ask for a ransom or punish them by trading them somewhere they didn’t want. He made fair trades for everyone involved. Those is not the actions of a tyrannical boss.
SSJ had me sold on us hiring the OC Ben Johnson out of Detroit. Soon after Johnson announced he wasn't leaving the Lions, we got word on MacDonald. All the reasons used to insist we needed a big push on Offense went out the window. Looked like there was no Plan B, so we got the college coach.
First I believe in what JS has done. He has 16 years to gain a lot of experience and knowledge.
BREAKING TIED GAMES
To settle tied games, here us a suggestion.
Eliminate the kicking game entirely. Similar to college ball, each team would have equal possessions until the tie is broken. A coin is flipped to determine which end of the field is played on to start the procedure. After each team has equal possession and the score is still tied the opposite end of the field is used for the next series. This flipping of field's ends continues until the end of the game. Each possession starts at the opponent's, say the 35 yard line. The offense has 4 downs to gain 10 yards for another 1st and 10, or score a touchdown. When a touchdown is made the offensive team must attempt a 2-point conversion before possession is turned over.
If each team has had equal possession periods then such TD is a walkoff win. In all scenarios a fumble recovery or an interception that is returned for a touchdown is also a walkoff TD. A fumble recovery or an interception by the defensive team ends the possession session by that offense. Should the results of such turnover creates no points and the score is still tied then the new series starts at the 35 yard line again. The League or Player's Association may want to limit possession to specific number or a time limit which could mean a tied designation to each team.
We don't see Jody Allen in the Press, much, if ever. Maybe it's just me, as I only turn on the TV to catch our Hawks on Sundays. I wouldn't know Ms. Allen if I sat next to her in a game. I've long wondered who speaks up for the 12s? My bet is JS asked Jody to go sit with fans in an empty seat and simply listen. Chat folks up. Get a feel for what they want or hope for. My bet is it had much to do with hiring a home town super popular college Coach. Certainly out of the Box... Nah. That's TOO crazy...
I am no expert, just a fan, and I know all 16 years have not been perfect for the Seahawks, the agony of the O-line for one, but I love what’s happened over the past couple of years. Yes, Grubb was not a good decision, but that was a hire late in the process with very little time to get the pieces in place. It didn’t work out but JS didn’t try and put a band aid over it and run it back for this season. Love the decisions he made this offseason and the decisions he chose not to make. ESPN graded this offseason for the Seahawks negatively and one of the few examples they gave was the failure to sign an OG in free agency. I think the restraint JS showed in refusing to match the Vikings deal without knowing the medicals will prove a great decision. Will Fries is not worth 5 years and 88 million.
Although the power may rest with JS, I feel he is very connected to the coaches and the owner. Moving on from Geno and DK will prove a good decision. 5 years for 150 million is a huge overpay for DK, especially given his poor fit for KK’s system. Geno might be a better QB in some systems, but I bet Kk felt Darnold was a better fit for his system, is significantly younger and costs less. To me this shows JS working with the coaches and owner to make sure the pieces will move the needle toward a championship.
Lastly, this year’s draft will be one that JS will be judged by. Although it was his and he had all the power, again it shows how connected he is to the coaches. The vast majority of the picks were offensive players. He had to be working with KK and the O-line coaches to retool the offense for the KK system. Then, the huge trade up for Emmanwori to the top of the second round had to be influenced by MM. Well done JS. A benevolent dictator may be the best form of government. It’s just that it is so rare to have a leader with all the power that does not lose touch with the people under him or let it go to his head.
But he did describe it as his biggest disappointment in a poor Seahawk offseason, as I recall? The Seahawks did have free agent guards come in to the facility. I think they were hoping one would emerge as a solution. I believe they would have pursued Bectin if he was a fit. They saw none of them as worth the money. The Chicago Bears guard signed with Cleveland for peanuts. Bectin was available for weeks. They decided to roll with the draft and the development of their very young group of young lineman. I’m sure he would have been pleased if they signed Fries to 5 years 88 million with 40 million guaranteed and waived the medical like the Vikings. Thank the lord JS doesn’t try to please ESPN.
He did, which I didn’t get because the pickings were so slim.
It’s the Rumpelstiltskin Effect. The options he listed were just a bunch of guys. The Hawks were docked because Schneider passed on trying to spin straw into gold..
I actually didn’t read what he said, but read second hand what someone who actually makes an effort to make sense when commenting said about it. I get what you’re saying, and it was a weak interior OL free agent class. The Atlanta center was set on playing in Chicago and Ben Johnson, and Fries in reality was only an average guard at best before his 5 game elite showing to start 2024, before he broke him leg. After that, there was no one who could move the needle.
Restraint is such an important GM trait. Look what the Browns did with QB Watson. They are still being strangled with that 245 million guaranteed they paid him. I didn’t read the ESPN article, but from what I hear there was no mention to the OC change this off season. That was a far bigger upgrade than people seem completely unaware of. The offense ranked 18 last year, but it was less effective than that. I would not be surprised to see them move up to become a top 12 offense, and with a very effective running game, both the passing game and the Seahawks defense will benefit from it.
With all the FA linemen we brought in. I think JS would have signed them if they took less money. Only drafting Zabel at LG shows he believes the young competition at C and RG will make a jump. Mainly due to the new offensive side scheme of not only being more run heavy but lateral heavy. Forcing the opponents Dline to wear down more efficiently during the game.
I'm intrigued by this and I'm also watching carefully the choices Schneider has made since gaining full control.
#1, he's gone defense and now running game (as he and Carroll did back in '11-'14 before then shifting to "wait a minute, we may have a HOF QB on our hands, let's let Russ cook!").
#2, he's accumulating cap space to be able to react/respond.
And #3, he's avoiding the QB-at-all-costs philosophy. Milroe is an interesting choice because he enhances the sandlot/running game even more than Wilson did, even though he'll never have Russ's deep ball and accuracy. The whole point though is to befuddle the defense, keep it on its heels, isn't it? So maybe Kaepernick is a better comp than Wilson for Milroe (Kaep's deep ball and accuracy is more attainable for Milroe). Is that what Schneider is remembering, how damn hard it was to defend against that guy and how that worked with their championship-level defense?
I wouldn't just go saying hi will never have Russell's deep ball. Its literally the best ball he throws right now and he probably has more throwing power than Russ. Milroe knows his liabilities in spades and is very focused on working on them. His press conferences and what the coaches are saying is very high praise. The poor kid also never had an offensive coordinator for more than a season. Maybe 2-3 years in the same system as well as the VR work they got him that Daniels used could make anything happen. He has the body speed and strength. Its all just fundamentals and processing.
I read several scouting reports that said Milroe's deep ball accuracy was really quite good but that he had accuracy problems with his short to intermediate throws. Also that those were fixable with correct footwork. I'll take the scouts words for it and now he has a long time coach t work on his footwork. He'll be alright.
If Milroe turns out to be as good as Kaepernick, the future is bright. Say what you will about Kaep’s limitations, he could take over a game. There’s never any more than a handful of players who can do that.
Yes, it just suddenly occurred to me that Kaep as a comp might be more attainable, and I agree 100% with you, would be an awesome comp
Completion %: 59.8
YPA: 7.3
TD/Int: 72/30 =2.4
Rating: 88.9
Rushing per game: 33.3
His stats aren’t all that great, but I do remember how difficult he was to defend. And his stats are weighed down a bit by having to face Seattle so many times when the Hawks had a historically dominant defense.
Seattle Seahawks' franchise value is approximately $5.45 billion. I'm trying to think of other organizations that have a market value this high and have a single person with so much control. Lee Iacocca with Ford? Warren Buffett at Berkshire Hathaway? Steve Jobs at Apple?
It's a short list.
It all seems to work really well, and that is damn rare.
I know this isn't the point of the article but I'm now choosing to believe that Dicko and Jody Allen have equal amounts of influence in the organisation
I don't know that John has any more or less power than 100 other people in the NFL. We don't really know the degrees of influence of particular owners, GM's, or coaches. I think JS runs the organization as a collaboration, so it's somewhat moot what he could do on his own. Many people in the building influence decisions. He is highly unlikely to bring players into the building that Mike Mac and the other coaches are not excited about. Tyrice Knight was a Mike Mac pick last year. Emmanwori seems like one of his picks this year. There are probably other examples. The coach is to a large degree setting the vision for who they are, what they are.....and JS has to bring the personnel in that fits and can execute on that vision. So who has more power?
As I said, I think it's moot. It's a dance between the Leaders within the organization, each influencing each other. The more of 'one mind' that they are, the quicker they can get aligned on direction and decisions. I think MacDonald and Kubiak are already FAR more aligned than Coach ever got with Grubb. Alignment usually leads to good outcomes, hence my optimism.
I remember JS's first press conference when a reporter asked him whether a certain player was one of his picks, and he quickly said something like 'That's not how we do things brother. It's not my pick, it's our pick', and I expect he hasn't changed a bit in that regard. Whatever power he has, he uses only to bring minds together to try to arrive at optimal outcomes. His ability to influence is great, no doubt. But his ears work more than his eyes and mouth, as all leaders should.
Well said.
I'm loving what JS and the drafting team of coaches has done in the draft the past two drafts, more so than any draft since 2012. Can't wait for training camp and the preseason games to begin. John's job will just get harder when it's time to make the final cuts but he will have help from his very good (I assume) coaching staff.
It's my bet JS doesn't take a Say (by design) in which player goes and who stays, Charlie. That'll be something Mike and Aaron deal with. He does chat guys up in the locker room after games, probably to maintain a first-hand 'feel' for what the guys are thinking/feeling.
Reading what I'm translating for personal comprehension as "years in power" translating to "actual power" and reading the comparisons of JS holding solo power to Tomlin/Rooney shared is very interesting.
Looking over coaching/player changes since PC left. Along with the pace of those changes, can be seen as JS flexing that actual power over the final roster. Shipping out those seen as "PC guys," adding MM, and then knowing MM utilizes a complicated defense, trusts and works with MM to bring in the correct players to optimize the new defensive scheme. Aside a few mid-season changes like trading for Ernest Jones and moving Coby to Safety, the defense went from one of the worst to top half.
Then year 2 of power JS does the same thing on the offensive side, kubiak OC, geno Dk gone, drafted a OG in 1st round, added a FB, performed a throwback move and drafted a running QB in the 3rd round, (but this time he learned from his mistake and told his starting QB what he was doing before he did it lol). Whole offensive scheme change, adding players fit to optimize the scheme.
I don't know how the offense will do this year, but if JS handles it as well as he did the defense last year. We superbowl contenders in next year.
One of the best moves JS made was getting rid of two discontent players ( Geno and DK ) who didn't want to be Seahawks. Goodbye Geno and DK and don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out! Your me, myself and I attitude won't be missed, especially Geno's five red zone picks and DK's selfish drive killing penalties!
One of the Rooney Family's grandsons called DK (and Jalen Ramsey) a "mental case", saying they don't do well playing for Pittsburg.
https://www.threads.com/@steelersdepot/post/DL5nPLgolEY/rooney-family-member-thinks-steelers-added-head-case-in-jalen-ramsey-and-dk-metc
I really liked Geno, but if a player would rather play for another team? I’m immediately done with Geno. Goodbye, good riddance! In the words of Tony Soprano, “She’s (Geno) dead to me!”
I think it's been said before in other SSJ threads, but JS seems to be really good at getting plans formulated and working magic within the constraints of the cap and whatnot. The rub seems to be the players selected after all the sweet maneuvering. Just hit more often and all will be forgiven....
Kinda not getting the point of this one. I have no idea what it is like in the day to day running of the Seahawks as I’m not there. The best I can gather is indirect evidence from player and coach interviews, & most of those speak to a collaborative environment created by Schneider. I have not seen anything that points to a dictatorial or power hungry structure within the organization and yet that is kind of the insinuation here. There was a lot of speculation that John ran Pete out but I’ve never seen any actual evidence to that fact. Is there some damning evidence out there that I’m missing? John makes personnel decisions without consulting coaches & staff? Where is this coming from? Just curious. Tenure doesn’t turn you into Tony Saprano by default.
For example, I believe the trades of Geno & D.K. was doing those players a solid. He didn’t have to do either one. Neither player had any leverage. He could have played hard ball for the “sake of the organization” but he didn’t. He also didn’t ask for a ransom or punish them by trading them somewhere they didn’t want. He made fair trades for everyone involved. Those is not the actions of a tyrannical boss.
SSJ had me sold on us hiring the OC Ben Johnson out of Detroit. Soon after Johnson announced he wasn't leaving the Lions, we got word on MacDonald. All the reasons used to insist we needed a big push on Offense went out the window. Looked like there was no Plan B, so we got the college coach.
NEW SUBJECT
First I believe in what JS has done. He has 16 years to gain a lot of experience and knowledge.
BREAKING TIED GAMES
To settle tied games, here us a suggestion.
Eliminate the kicking game entirely. Similar to college ball, each team would have equal possessions until the tie is broken. A coin is flipped to determine which end of the field is played on to start the procedure. After each team has equal possession and the score is still tied the opposite end of the field is used for the next series. This flipping of field's ends continues until the end of the game. Each possession starts at the opponent's, say the 35 yard line. The offense has 4 downs to gain 10 yards for another 1st and 10, or score a touchdown. When a touchdown is made the offensive team must attempt a 2-point conversion before possession is turned over.
If each team has had equal possession periods then such TD is a walkoff win. In all scenarios a fumble recovery or an interception that is returned for a touchdown is also a walkoff TD. A fumble recovery or an interception by the defensive team ends the possession session by that offense. Should the results of such turnover creates no points and the score is still tied then the new series starts at the 35 yard line again. The League or Player's Association may want to limit possession to specific number or a time limit which could mean a tied designation to each team.
We don't see Jody Allen in the Press, much, if ever. Maybe it's just me, as I only turn on the TV to catch our Hawks on Sundays. I wouldn't know Ms. Allen if I sat next to her in a game. I've long wondered who speaks up for the 12s? My bet is JS asked Jody to go sit with fans in an empty seat and simply listen. Chat folks up. Get a feel for what they want or hope for. My bet is it had much to do with hiring a home town super popular college Coach. Certainly out of the Box... Nah. That's TOO crazy...
Oh boy. ‘Naple-John’?
Really SJ? 🤣
They are about the same height.
https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:AP:13afe754-bb20-44b7-a181-5130a5c97101
Noice!
I am no expert, just a fan, and I know all 16 years have not been perfect for the Seahawks, the agony of the O-line for one, but I love what’s happened over the past couple of years. Yes, Grubb was not a good decision, but that was a hire late in the process with very little time to get the pieces in place. It didn’t work out but JS didn’t try and put a band aid over it and run it back for this season. Love the decisions he made this offseason and the decisions he chose not to make. ESPN graded this offseason for the Seahawks negatively and one of the few examples they gave was the failure to sign an OG in free agency. I think the restraint JS showed in refusing to match the Vikings deal without knowing the medicals will prove a great decision. Will Fries is not worth 5 years and 88 million.
Although the power may rest with JS, I feel he is very connected to the coaches and the owner. Moving on from Geno and DK will prove a good decision. 5 years for 150 million is a huge overpay for DK, especially given his poor fit for KK’s system. Geno might be a better QB in some systems, but I bet Kk felt Darnold was a better fit for his system, is significantly younger and costs less. To me this shows JS working with the coaches and owner to make sure the pieces will move the needle toward a championship.
Lastly, this year’s draft will be one that JS will be judged by. Although it was his and he had all the power, again it shows how connected he is to the coaches. The vast majority of the picks were offensive players. He had to be working with KK and the O-line coaches to retool the offense for the KK system. Then, the huge trade up for Emmanwori to the top of the second round had to be influenced by MM. Well done JS. A benevolent dictator may be the best form of government. It’s just that it is so rare to have a leader with all the power that does not lose touch with the people under him or let it go to his head.
The missed guards named in the ESPN article were replacement-level guys at best.
But he did describe it as his biggest disappointment in a poor Seahawk offseason, as I recall? The Seahawks did have free agent guards come in to the facility. I think they were hoping one would emerge as a solution. I believe they would have pursued Bectin if he was a fit. They saw none of them as worth the money. The Chicago Bears guard signed with Cleveland for peanuts. Bectin was available for weeks. They decided to roll with the draft and the development of their very young group of young lineman. I’m sure he would have been pleased if they signed Fries to 5 years 88 million with 40 million guaranteed and waived the medical like the Vikings. Thank the lord JS doesn’t try to please ESPN.
He did, which I didn’t get because the pickings were so slim.
It’s the Rumpelstiltskin Effect. The options he listed were just a bunch of guys. The Hawks were docked because Schneider passed on trying to spin straw into gold..
I actually didn’t read what he said, but read second hand what someone who actually makes an effort to make sense when commenting said about it. I get what you’re saying, and it was a weak interior OL free agent class. The Atlanta center was set on playing in Chicago and Ben Johnson, and Fries in reality was only an average guard at best before his 5 game elite showing to start 2024, before he broke him leg. After that, there was no one who could move the needle.
Restraint is such an important GM trait. Look what the Browns did with QB Watson. They are still being strangled with that 245 million guaranteed they paid him. I didn’t read the ESPN article, but from what I hear there was no mention to the OC change this off season. That was a far bigger upgrade than people seem completely unaware of. The offense ranked 18 last year, but it was less effective than that. I would not be surprised to see them move up to become a top 12 offense, and with a very effective running game, both the passing game and the Seahawks defense will benefit from it.
With all the FA linemen we brought in. I think JS would have signed them if they took less money. Only drafting Zabel at LG shows he believes the young competition at C and RG will make a jump. Mainly due to the new offensive side scheme of not only being more run heavy but lateral heavy. Forcing the opponents Dline to wear down more efficiently during the game.
I'm intrigued by this and I'm also watching carefully the choices Schneider has made since gaining full control.
#1, he's gone defense and now running game (as he and Carroll did back in '11-'14 before then shifting to "wait a minute, we may have a HOF QB on our hands, let's let Russ cook!").
#2, he's accumulating cap space to be able to react/respond.
And #3, he's avoiding the QB-at-all-costs philosophy. Milroe is an interesting choice because he enhances the sandlot/running game even more than Wilson did, even though he'll never have Russ's deep ball and accuracy. The whole point though is to befuddle the defense, keep it on its heels, isn't it? So maybe Kaepernick is a better comp than Wilson for Milroe (Kaep's deep ball and accuracy is more attainable for Milroe). Is that what Schneider is remembering, how damn hard it was to defend against that guy and how that worked with their championship-level defense?
I wouldn't just go saying hi will never have Russell's deep ball. Its literally the best ball he throws right now and he probably has more throwing power than Russ. Milroe knows his liabilities in spades and is very focused on working on them. His press conferences and what the coaches are saying is very high praise. The poor kid also never had an offensive coordinator for more than a season. Maybe 2-3 years in the same system as well as the VR work they got him that Daniels used could make anything happen. He has the body speed and strength. Its all just fundamentals and processing.
I read several scouting reports that said Milroe's deep ball accuracy was really quite good but that he had accuracy problems with his short to intermediate throws. Also that those were fixable with correct footwork. I'll take the scouts words for it and now he has a long time coach t work on his footwork. He'll be alright.
If Milroe turns out to be as good as Kaepernick, the future is bright. Say what you will about Kaep’s limitations, he could take over a game. There’s never any more than a handful of players who can do that.
Yes, it just suddenly occurred to me that Kaep as a comp might be more attainable, and I agree 100% with you, would be an awesome comp
Completion %: 59.8
YPA: 7.3
TD/Int: 72/30 =2.4
Rating: 88.9
Rushing per game: 33.3
His stats aren’t all that great, but I do remember how difficult he was to defend. And his stats are weighed down a bit by having to face Seattle so many times when the Hawks had a historically dominant defense.