Here’s the thing: Geno haters see Geno as the problem, now and in the future. ‘He’s not good enough now and he won’t be any better in the future and he’s going to sink the boat financially’. So obviously toss him. But then what? Get some second tier current ‘known commodity’ or trade up in the draft.
Denver thought they were one guy away from the promised land so they brought in Russ. The Jets bet the farm on Rogers. How is replacing Geno going to turn the team around? It’s not his fault that defense can’t keep the opponents off the field, or that the O line can’t protect the QB, or open holes for K9. I’m not the leader of the Geno fan club, but at this point I don’t feel like dumping him will turn the team around. I suspect that if there was some way to compare the performance of every player on this team to all the other starters in the league at their positions, Geno would be closer to the top of the comparison list than almost all of the rest of the team. If people have to go it doesn’t make sense to me to get rid of the best player at his position money considerations aside.
We have seen one QB playing at an MVP level right now (Goff) and another who is a guy that can lift his team (Allen) and we are about to play against probably the best QB in the NFC (Stafford ). Saying Geno is not “that guy” is not “hating” him. Given his age, Geno is at his ceiling in terms of performance. Extending him would be the wrong thing to do even if there is no heir apparent at the moment.
Unless they can show specific examples of people on THIS site that term is sorely misplaced! Anyone who watches multiple team games should recognize being the team QB comes with more praise and criticism than anyone else on the field! They take the blame and the credit for every outcome!! Announcers and postgame analysts are very careful with what they say about the QBs for a reason!
Last night’s game had an announcer saying something odd about a completed pass under stress from Wilson: all credit went to the receiver and an insulting dismissive comment about the throw. Comes with the privilege of being a QB.
Geno looked so good in that New England game. A couple of others too. But then he has games where he's streaky at best. The Bills loss last week was an example of that. Sure, a snap went 12 feet over his head, then his foot got stepped on and his O line let rushers through unimpeded and false started more than a couple of times. But the franchise QB on the other side also saw his share of penalties and blown assignments. There aren't many impartial observers who wouldn't agree that there's a big gap between Geno Smith and Josh Allen.
Josh Allens don't grow on trees, and I'd be the last person to correctly pick a 20 year old coming out of the draft whose game will translate to the NFL. But you have to swing sometimes. We've drafted McGough and Russ under JS that I can recall.
I have always found that interesting: who is the best Seahawk at their respective position?
It’s probably Geno who is arguably a top 7 QB in the league.
Maybe DK? but he could be 20th best wr. Maybe K9? But there are also a bunch of good RBs. Maybe someone on the D? But hard to see it with the D being so porous now.
I am beginning to look at Geno and DK more and more as a package deal. Either you think you van win now and you pay them. Or you don’t and let them go and reinvest.
I don’t see a reason to keep one without the other. What to do, really depends on how this season plays out. If the season ended today - I would extend both.
I would just say if that is the route we go … let’s go all in with a rebuild and get rid of most if not all high priced contracts. And really try to build through the trenches.
The case for or against Geno should always come back to value. This is really true of every player, but the impact of overpaying for Geno or DK is so much greater than overpaying for Dodson or Jenkins. No reasonable fan should "hate" Geno, but we should all be apprehensive of overpaying for any player.
I would argue that Geno and DK are not going to become better players in the future than they are today. I would also argue that Geno and DK are a good value to the Seahawks this season on their current contracts. Keeping either player beyond this season will require that we pay at least as much as they are worth, and quite probably more. A team should only overpay players when they need them to win a Super Bowl. Are we there?
I believe both Geno and DK are better this year than last year and will be better next year than this year. However, as well as Geno dodges oncoming defenders, he needs more help from his OL and TE's. The Pitt game on Monday Night Football demonstrated what great planning with a good strategy can accomplish to help the QB out. I was impressed at how few times they asked Russell to do things he doesn't do well. Of course, they also eliminated most of his down field passing altogether. The coaching for Pittsburg seems miles better than he had in Denver.
From a scheme perspective I would LOVE to see us use some more PA boots and a smattering of RPO just to change the launch point and timing up post-snap. It's way too easy for the D when we run a motion on the boundary and have a straight shotgun snap on like 70+% of dropbacks (numbers may be entirely fabricated).
FWIW. I am not the biggest fan of PFF, not sure anyone is. But they are probably unbiased when it comes to Geno. Here was their rankings from the BIlls game. I think many or most football fans view football as: team wins = QB good, team loses = QB stinks. Most don't judge the nuance of how the actual QB plays. Just wins and losses.
From PFF: "The highest-graded Seahawks in Week 8 vs the Bills:
Yes, but Hall and Mafe both kept the pressure on Allen, but he was getting the ball out of his hands very quickly, and where our defense broke down in the passing game was not having tight coverage against the WR's from the start of the play? Allen might have had to wait longer for a WR to open up and in the meantime Hall and Mafe would get home. ARGGGGGGG
You'll attract more flies with honey and open up some interesting debates if you don't by classifying a large section of the Seahawks fan base as "haters". I don't believe I've ever written that if a fan likes Geno they must be a "fanboy" or a "fangirl", or if you dislike Geno you have to be a "hater".
It's entirely fair, and logical, that intelligent fans have different opinions and opposing views about the quarterback. At this point the "hater" thing is the same as name calling because it's intended to get a rise out of people.
(Which is not inherently bad for me because it does lead to more comments.) But the problem is a lot of people will stop reading your comment after the first line because it was an insult to them. You could make your point to more people if you just expained why you have a certain opinion about a player.
Thanks SJ. You posted what I did much more eloquently. Only Seahawk I ever “hated” was the piece of trash, scum, totally worthless individual from California, named Behring.
He was an ASS (Behring, met him three times way back) but his son was a nice guy and tried to circumvent his dad multiple times to no avail. I did a remodel for David and had a few conversations with him back in the day on the Hawks, so at least I'm coming from a point of view of having those talks.
Thanks Hawk. Your first I’ve seen who met him. I actually went to several games back then for free being a business customer of Seafirst Bank (good bank before the trash BofA bought them). Behring did all he could to have the Kingdome Lease fail so was cool that Seafirst and others kept crowd up. Only good thing about Behring, it brought us Paul . :-)
Why do you post the false narrative of “Geno hater”??? Based on your post, SJ or anyone critiquing him are “haters”. You understand there is a stark and distinct difference between “hate” and criticism?
I so appreciate your clear-eyed articulation of where we are. One of the first things I learned about personnel was that if you're going to fire somebody, you better have another person available who can do their job. (Or, in my case, you better be able to do it yourself. I don't guess Schneider can sling it or wing it...so...) And whoever plays QB will be playing behind a sieve for an offensive line, in Ryan Grubb's offense. (Pausing again to note that neither O nor D are fully installed yet. This seems like a problem, I just don't know if it means the schemes are too complicated or the players are too deficient. Or both.) If you draft a rookie, you HAVE to be looking at a full rebuild. And you have to be clear-eyed about the quality of QBs available. At best three, last time I checked, are getting anywhere near first-round grades, and none of them are top-10. One of those three is Shadeur Sanders, and he's almost certainly a bad culture fit whose father will want him in a major market. So. So who you gonna get? What free agent is available who you want to gamble the farm and the future and your job on? Behind a line that keeps us, apparently, from even the semblance of a running game. Geno isn't the problem. He may also not be the solution. But this year, right now, and next year? Not where I'd spend my money. Oh, and DK's absence isn't why we lost on Sunday.
I’m interested in who members of the SSJ community see as core offensive players in 2025 and beyond. Based on performance so far, to me they are Cross, Metcalf, and Walker (Lucas, if he can actually come back).
I miss Lucas...I think if we utilized JSN better he would be on the list. Charbs makes solid contributions and hangs on to the rock. Don't sleep on AJ Barner either. Maybe one or more of these could make the list...? But it's not a super deep group. Changes are coming for sure.
I know it is an unpopular opinion, but I think it is heavily dependent on wins.
Hawks win 9 or more games and make the playoffs. Everyone is back except Lockett unless he takes a pay cut.
Hawks win 7 or less, everyone is gone except the guys still on rookie contracts. Maybe DK stays with his contract structure. But I think he would get traded.
However, it's a tough call though because I think it is a hard sell for JS to tell Jody we are rebuilding. Which to me that is what it means when you cut and trade your best players (DK/Geno). JS may not get that rope or feels he doesn't have it so he may try to run back the same group. The offense has been pretty good even with a poor line that may get better next year as it is mostly young.
Frankly i'm glad we have Allen backing all of this up. A calm ownership who lets Football people make the Football decisions is so very very good. I do believe in JS as a GM and really can't see any obvious bad moves as of yet.
To me it feels like he's going to do something at QB. So much of JS rhetoric in the past, in draft season, has been about QB's and visting them and seeing them. In a post-Russ post-PC world he can actually put his money (draft picks) where his mouth is and get the QB he really really wants (I want it to be Ewers, i'll trust JS if he goes a different route).
Churn roster to help MM get the D personnel he needs. Grab that QB. We're not in the SB window now, we very much can be in 2026 with a little faith. MM might be the crucial lynchpin in this, and whether the Buffalo Debacle was a one off, or if he's losing control of the locker room.
Football is so awesome with the emotions of the fans swirling from week to week. What would we be talking about today had the center not snapped the ball over the QBs head? Or stepped on the QBs foot? Or the football not get kicked over the first down line on a fumble to the one Bills player around 7 seahawks? Or had the ref not called roughing the passer or had Hall pulled up and not hit Allen? Or had a big D-lineman not caught a football tipped by two players in the rain?
But all those things broke the wrong way for the hawks and the result is a very bad looking loss. This game easily could've been a one possession game as the betting line indicated (3 point spread).
But football is the ultimate small sample size game. Every game is magnified. And even big plays within the game are magnified. It is part of the reason to love the game. It is also very hard to predict from week to week and year to year.
I have said from the start of the season that if the Seahawks win 9 or so gmae and make the playoffs, I believe the core will stay together. That Geno and DK will be extended.
However, if the team wins 7 or less games, then we got bigger fish to fry. Heads could roll in this scenario including all high contract guys: DK, Geno, Tyler, Dre'mont. I think LW will stick around and the high-priced guys that don't reduce the cap. This is not a good scenario and would suggest deeper problems and a deeper rebuild that could take years and years to work through. Including coaches and GM. Ugh.
The Bills game did not change much from on the offensive side of the ball for me. This is still a good offensive team even with a poor O-line (although I thought they played pretty darn well in pass pro: great to see - I think they are getting better). It's the defense, again.
I do not think that JS believes that this is a scouting year or a rebuilding team like it was in 2010. He brought in Mike Mac to change the defense and he beleives that this team can win as currently constructed. This is what he has said from day one. This is also year 3 in post RW era. Which is to say, the draft picks are now in year 3 and year 2 from the trade and it is time to hit the gas pedal. Mike Mac was brought in for defense can he figure it out? That is the question and many jobs depend on the answer to that question even if they are completely unrelated (Geno/DK). And at a certain point, the eyes will turn towards the GM who I don't know could withstand telling Jody that they need another rebuild. His job could be on the line soon.
Good point on how quickly and drastically the narrative can swing from week to week. When the bad-breaks pile on, a competitive game can turn into an ugly loss (Bills). Likewise, when all the good-breaks happen at just the right time, a competitive game can turn into a dominant win (Falcons). I don't think we're that much better than Atlanta or that much worse than Buffalo. That's just NFL football.
Doesn't make the loss feel any better ... But it is good to remember just a week ago we were flying pretty high after beating a likely playoff team on the road pretty handily.
I am not an Anthony Richardson fan like many Seahawks fans were before the draft and who thought or maybe still think we would have taken him over Spoon. I do not beleive that to be true, and I don't think that the Hawks were ever going to take a QB at 5. The big dog and pony show traveling to meet QBs was a smokescreen but was also to get to know them in case one of them became available.
Still early but I do think that JS liked AR in the draft. Not enough to draft him at 5. But would he kick some tires here in the next couple years (assuming JS is still the GM)? I think so ... I think that was the point of the QB tour. He knew the odds were that at least a couple of the QBs would fail.
I agree, Mike. I think Richardson was excited for what was planned for him here and shocked when the Colts upset all the plans. He was not ready for primetime and knew it, as did Pete and JS. Schneider will be all over acquiring him for cheap, apparently.
This season was never about making the SB. or the playoffs. This season is to evaluate and fix the problem areas. LB and Oline and Geno. As of now, Geno won't be extended. JS and MM need to find their QB. ( maybe a young QB. stuck in the wrong system ala Sam Darnold ) or a draftee or Sam Howell.
Fans expected way too much way too soon. Any thing above 500 would be a good year.
I'll just be looking for improvements week to week.
Mike Mac was asked what the team is good at. He said, among other things, passing the ball and that Geno Smith has been great. I would agree with Coach Mac just as I agreed last year with Legendary Head Coach Pete Carroll.
I shouldn’t have said ‘haters’. Doubters would have been more appropriate. Further, I’m not Geno fan club president, I realize the ‘Geno Dillemma’ is about value as much as skills. He’s younger than Russell Wilson, better than most of the starting QB’s but too expensive for the Hawks? I wonder what he’ll get paid once we let him go, and who will be a better ‘value’ to replace him.
Oh hey, I replied to your comment above before reading this. I'm not surprised you thought it over again and adjusted your phrasing because I know you're not trying to pick a fight or anything.
I would add the one that should be really looked at is JS and his drafts ( still no Devekoped O linemen. Maybe Cross but he is high end of average. The Adams deal ; made no sense. Eskridge He was not needed when the OL was in shambles. 2 2nd round RBs with no one to block.
Geno - let him go. This team is a couple years away. We need the money to fix the holes. Sure we might tank for a a year. But what do we have ? Any all pro players ? Maybe 1-2 pro bowl level ?
McD - this is a hard one. Is he a leader ? Is he in over his head ? I’d give the staff another year to see but so far it makes we wish we went with Quinn.
I might have at least thought about starting this article with the last sentence.
Maybe we get Lucas back, and someone wins the job at RG because they play noticeably better than the other guy. Getting the OL able to open holes for the running game is really important for the rest of the season or we might get the cold shoulder from Kenneth Walker III. I would not blame him one bit. It almost seems like poor strategy to get your RB before you get your OL. Of course, the football god/s have messed up a decent plan when they got Cross and Lucas. But alas, ... something, something about mice and men and how their plans go awry.
I am a bit of a gadfly when it seems appropriate and when I think you can take it, but I'm never intentionally mean. I hope you feel that. I leave plenty of comments unsaid for the sake of harmony and kum bai ah.
In turn, I trust that your intentions are always kind and thoughtful.
I’ve seen posts all around how “that game was the worse I’ve ever seen”. Carroll never had teams playing this poorly. People have short term memories. PC first season. Middle of the season. Hawks lost (one road one home) to the “mighty”Raiders and Giants in back to back weeks by a combined 74-10. Seattle defense gave up over 1000 yards in those 2 games. Had all of 50% completions and about 300 total yards. Finished 7-9. And that was an improvement over the Mora season. Sorry folks, PC was never perfect. But he did, with JS, keep working to improve the team.
I don't know who is responsible for scouting O-linemen but whoever and JS don't have a good track record. Now I totally understand everyone says that the college O-linemen are not developed well, BUT Seattle has been woeful in the majority of their selections over a fairly long period of time. A good consistent offense cannot and will not appear unless the O-line is dealt with. So IMHO there needs to be some kind of changes made if nothing else but in philosophy! As far as the rest of the team ( mainly the D, I am fairly confident that as this season moves along and they prepare for the off season and draft etc. MM and his confidants will let JS know what he wants and needs. I know what I would do ( Get a true big nasty NT, probably two if possible and decide what /who you want your LB's to be and to play! This is a learning experience for almost all of this teams coaching and scouting departments, to learn and adjust as they move forward. I truly don't see that this team needs that many new players to be actually very good. Go Hawks!!!
I'll go back to pre-season where SSJ brought up the question of who are the blue chip players (or blue chip players in waiting)? 2024 is really all about that, at least to me. Whether we make the playoffs or not, what I would do in the offseason would not change one iota. Some of these guys are Seahawks, some are not. Mike and John have to sort that out. Sure, there might be some bridge players, but prime money should go to nobody that they don't deem true, long-term Seahawks.
As always happens during the season, there's what you expect, and then there is actually what happens. I expected JSN to play a more prominent role. Same for Spoon. Same for Murphy, although my expectations were probably out of whack. Play the season out and see who steps up and who doesn't. A lot of football still to play.
Patience. Mike MacDonald will sort out who he can win with, and who he can't. Depending on how things go, maybe we need 2 offseasons to really get the roster right. I get frustrated after losses like everybody else, but I have to remind myself where we are. We're at the beginning of the journey, not the end.
I think these 4 points are absolutely the core of any team that isn't eyeing a Lombardi. I'd be interested in revisting these again in December and at the end of the season, whenever that may be.
This list is essentially what every owner &/or GM should be doing every year. Even if you have Montana or Favre you might want to grab Young or Rodgers. I think that the Hawks long stretch of decent play limited the quality of players available as first round picks. Not even all high first round picks pan out and probably a lower percentage of later picks are hits.
As I’ve said before, this is JS first season without PC and he hired an all new staff. It’s going to take more than one season to see how this group works, or doesn’t. Unless lightning strikes and they improbably win the SB this season.
Here’s the thing: Geno haters see Geno as the problem, now and in the future. ‘He’s not good enough now and he won’t be any better in the future and he’s going to sink the boat financially’. So obviously toss him. But then what? Get some second tier current ‘known commodity’ or trade up in the draft.
Denver thought they were one guy away from the promised land so they brought in Russ. The Jets bet the farm on Rogers. How is replacing Geno going to turn the team around? It’s not his fault that defense can’t keep the opponents off the field, or that the O line can’t protect the QB, or open holes for K9. I’m not the leader of the Geno fan club, but at this point I don’t feel like dumping him will turn the team around. I suspect that if there was some way to compare the performance of every player on this team to all the other starters in the league at their positions, Geno would be closer to the top of the comparison list than almost all of the rest of the team. If people have to go it doesn’t make sense to me to get rid of the best player at his position money considerations aside.
Who are the "haters"? I don't see anyone "hating" anyone. Honest criticisms of any player does not translate to hate.
The “Geno hater” narrative has got to be retired.
We have seen one QB playing at an MVP level right now (Goff) and another who is a guy that can lift his team (Allen) and we are about to play against probably the best QB in the NFC (Stafford ). Saying Geno is not “that guy” is not “hating” him. Given his age, Geno is at his ceiling in terms of performance. Extending him would be the wrong thing to do even if there is no heir apparent at the moment.
Unless they can show specific examples of people on THIS site that term is sorely misplaced! Anyone who watches multiple team games should recognize being the team QB comes with more praise and criticism than anyone else on the field! They take the blame and the credit for every outcome!! Announcers and postgame analysts are very careful with what they say about the QBs for a reason!
Last night’s game had an announcer saying something odd about a completed pass under stress from Wilson: all credit went to the receiver and an insulting dismissive comment about the throw. Comes with the privilege of being a QB.
If this community has any haters, they don't comment. All the haters are on the preferred hater sites like X, Youtube comment sections, et. al.
Geno looked so good in that New England game. A couple of others too. But then he has games where he's streaky at best. The Bills loss last week was an example of that. Sure, a snap went 12 feet over his head, then his foot got stepped on and his O line let rushers through unimpeded and false started more than a couple of times. But the franchise QB on the other side also saw his share of penalties and blown assignments. There aren't many impartial observers who wouldn't agree that there's a big gap between Geno Smith and Josh Allen.
Josh Allens don't grow on trees, and I'd be the last person to correctly pick a 20 year old coming out of the draft whose game will translate to the NFL. But you have to swing sometimes. We've drafted McGough and Russ under JS that I can recall.
💯 💯 💯
I have always found that interesting: who is the best Seahawk at their respective position?
It’s probably Geno who is arguably a top 7 QB in the league.
Maybe DK? but he could be 20th best wr. Maybe K9? But there are also a bunch of good RBs. Maybe someone on the D? But hard to see it with the D being so porous now.
If it came down to this who would you keep ? DJ MK or an aging QB?
INO that’s what it will come down to at decision time.
Do you mean DK?
I am beginning to look at Geno and DK more and more as a package deal. Either you think you van win now and you pay them. Or you don’t and let them go and reinvest.
I don’t see a reason to keep one without the other. What to do, really depends on how this season plays out. If the season ended today - I would extend both.
Sorry for the the typos. I look at it as 30m for each. That’s a lot off $$$ tied up that could be better spent elsewhere
Yeah … I understand that position.
I would just say if that is the route we go … let’s go all in with a rebuild and get rid of most if not all high priced contracts. And really try to build through the trenches.
Mike, I'm starting to get a sense that you like Geno Smith.
😂
The case for or against Geno should always come back to value. This is really true of every player, but the impact of overpaying for Geno or DK is so much greater than overpaying for Dodson or Jenkins. No reasonable fan should "hate" Geno, but we should all be apprehensive of overpaying for any player.
I would argue that Geno and DK are not going to become better players in the future than they are today. I would also argue that Geno and DK are a good value to the Seahawks this season on their current contracts. Keeping either player beyond this season will require that we pay at least as much as they are worth, and quite probably more. A team should only overpay players when they need them to win a Super Bowl. Are we there?
I’d rather overpay for DK as he is than Dodson or Jenkins or anyone else who is an afterthought to opposing coordinators.
I believe both Geno and DK are better this year than last year and will be better next year than this year. However, as well as Geno dodges oncoming defenders, he needs more help from his OL and TE's. The Pitt game on Monday Night Football demonstrated what great planning with a good strategy can accomplish to help the QB out. I was impressed at how few times they asked Russell to do things he doesn't do well. Of course, they also eliminated most of his down field passing altogether. The coaching for Pittsburg seems miles better than he had in Denver.
From a scheme perspective I would LOVE to see us use some more PA boots and a smattering of RPO just to change the launch point and timing up post-snap. It's way too easy for the D when we run a motion on the boundary and have a straight shotgun snap on like 70+% of dropbacks (numbers may be entirely fabricated).
FWIW. I am not the biggest fan of PFF, not sure anyone is. But they are probably unbiased when it comes to Geno. Here was their rankings from the BIlls game. I think many or most football fans view football as: team wins = QB good, team loses = QB stinks. Most don't judge the nuance of how the actual QB plays. Just wins and losses.
From PFF: "The highest-graded Seahawks in Week 8 vs the Bills:
🥇 Jaxon Smith-Njigba - 73.8
🥈 Geno Smith - 72.7
🥉 Coby Bryant - 70.5
🏅 Laken Tomlinson - 69.4
🏅 Byron Murphy II - 65.7
(min. 25 snaps)"
Source: https://x.com/PFF_Seahawks/status/1850961964463206420
I would agree with this analysis from PFF also for the most part.
Yes, but Hall and Mafe both kept the pressure on Allen, but he was getting the ball out of his hands very quickly, and where our defense broke down in the passing game was not having tight coverage against the WR's from the start of the play? Allen might have had to wait longer for a WR to open up and in the meantime Hall and Mafe would get home. ARGGGGGGG
I can’t believe how fast he was getting rid of the ball. So frustrating and abnormal for him.
Hats off to the bills strategy. Well coached and played
Tomlinson? they must have been watching a different game than me -
Even Byron Murphy was getting blown off the ball at times.
Just such a bad game up and down the roster is I think the biggest takeaway for me.
You'll attract more flies with honey and open up some interesting debates if you don't by classifying a large section of the Seahawks fan base as "haters". I don't believe I've ever written that if a fan likes Geno they must be a "fanboy" or a "fangirl", or if you dislike Geno you have to be a "hater".
It's entirely fair, and logical, that intelligent fans have different opinions and opposing views about the quarterback. At this point the "hater" thing is the same as name calling because it's intended to get a rise out of people.
(Which is not inherently bad for me because it does lead to more comments.) But the problem is a lot of people will stop reading your comment after the first line because it was an insult to them. You could make your point to more people if you just expained why you have a certain opinion about a player.
Thanks SJ. You posted what I did much more eloquently. Only Seahawk I ever “hated” was the piece of trash, scum, totally worthless individual from California, named Behring.
He was an ASS (Behring, met him three times way back) but his son was a nice guy and tried to circumvent his dad multiple times to no avail. I did a remodel for David and had a few conversations with him back in the day on the Hawks, so at least I'm coming from a point of view of having those talks.
Thanks Hawk. Your first I’ve seen who met him. I actually went to several games back then for free being a business customer of Seafirst Bank (good bank before the trash BofA bought them). Behring did all he could to have the Kingdome Lease fail so was cool that Seafirst and others kept crowd up. Only good thing about Behring, it brought us Paul . :-)
Why do you post the false narrative of “Geno hater”??? Based on your post, SJ or anyone critiquing him are “haters”. You understand there is a stark and distinct difference between “hate” and criticism?
I so appreciate your clear-eyed articulation of where we are. One of the first things I learned about personnel was that if you're going to fire somebody, you better have another person available who can do their job. (Or, in my case, you better be able to do it yourself. I don't guess Schneider can sling it or wing it...so...) And whoever plays QB will be playing behind a sieve for an offensive line, in Ryan Grubb's offense. (Pausing again to note that neither O nor D are fully installed yet. This seems like a problem, I just don't know if it means the schemes are too complicated or the players are too deficient. Or both.) If you draft a rookie, you HAVE to be looking at a full rebuild. And you have to be clear-eyed about the quality of QBs available. At best three, last time I checked, are getting anywhere near first-round grades, and none of them are top-10. One of those three is Shadeur Sanders, and he's almost certainly a bad culture fit whose father will want him in a major market. So. So who you gonna get? What free agent is available who you want to gamble the farm and the future and your job on? Behind a line that keeps us, apparently, from even the semblance of a running game. Geno isn't the problem. He may also not be the solution. But this year, right now, and next year? Not where I'd spend my money. Oh, and DK's absence isn't why we lost on Sunday.
I’m interested in who members of the SSJ community see as core offensive players in 2025 and beyond. Based on performance so far, to me they are Cross, Metcalf, and Walker (Lucas, if he can actually come back).
I miss Lucas...I think if we utilized JSN better he would be on the list. Charbs makes solid contributions and hangs on to the rock. Don't sleep on AJ Barner either. Maybe one or more of these could make the list...? But it's not a super deep group. Changes are coming for sure.
I know it is an unpopular opinion, but I think it is heavily dependent on wins.
Hawks win 9 or more games and make the playoffs. Everyone is back except Lockett unless he takes a pay cut.
Hawks win 7 or less, everyone is gone except the guys still on rookie contracts. Maybe DK stays with his contract structure. But I think he would get traded.
However, it's a tough call though because I think it is a hard sell for JS to tell Jody we are rebuilding. Which to me that is what it means when you cut and trade your best players (DK/Geno). JS may not get that rope or feels he doesn't have it so he may try to run back the same group. The offense has been pretty good even with a poor line that may get better next year as it is mostly young.
Frankly i'm glad we have Allen backing all of this up. A calm ownership who lets Football people make the Football decisions is so very very good. I do believe in JS as a GM and really can't see any obvious bad moves as of yet.
To me it feels like he's going to do something at QB. So much of JS rhetoric in the past, in draft season, has been about QB's and visting them and seeing them. In a post-Russ post-PC world he can actually put his money (draft picks) where his mouth is and get the QB he really really wants (I want it to be Ewers, i'll trust JS if he goes a different route).
Churn roster to help MM get the D personnel he needs. Grab that QB. We're not in the SB window now, we very much can be in 2026 with a little faith. MM might be the crucial lynchpin in this, and whether the Buffalo Debacle was a one off, or if he's losing control of the locker room.
the only question mark is, well, when is she going to sell the team?
SSJ.... don't scare me like this!
Football is so awesome with the emotions of the fans swirling from week to week. What would we be talking about today had the center not snapped the ball over the QBs head? Or stepped on the QBs foot? Or the football not get kicked over the first down line on a fumble to the one Bills player around 7 seahawks? Or had the ref not called roughing the passer or had Hall pulled up and not hit Allen? Or had a big D-lineman not caught a football tipped by two players in the rain?
But all those things broke the wrong way for the hawks and the result is a very bad looking loss. This game easily could've been a one possession game as the betting line indicated (3 point spread).
But football is the ultimate small sample size game. Every game is magnified. And even big plays within the game are magnified. It is part of the reason to love the game. It is also very hard to predict from week to week and year to year.
I have said from the start of the season that if the Seahawks win 9 or so gmae and make the playoffs, I believe the core will stay together. That Geno and DK will be extended.
However, if the team wins 7 or less games, then we got bigger fish to fry. Heads could roll in this scenario including all high contract guys: DK, Geno, Tyler, Dre'mont. I think LW will stick around and the high-priced guys that don't reduce the cap. This is not a good scenario and would suggest deeper problems and a deeper rebuild that could take years and years to work through. Including coaches and GM. Ugh.
The Bills game did not change much from on the offensive side of the ball for me. This is still a good offensive team even with a poor O-line (although I thought they played pretty darn well in pass pro: great to see - I think they are getting better). It's the defense, again.
I do not think that JS believes that this is a scouting year or a rebuilding team like it was in 2010. He brought in Mike Mac to change the defense and he beleives that this team can win as currently constructed. This is what he has said from day one. This is also year 3 in post RW era. Which is to say, the draft picks are now in year 3 and year 2 from the trade and it is time to hit the gas pedal. Mike Mac was brought in for defense can he figure it out? That is the question and many jobs depend on the answer to that question even if they are completely unrelated (Geno/DK). And at a certain point, the eyes will turn towards the GM who I don't know could withstand telling Jody that they need another rebuild. His job could be on the line soon.
Good point on how quickly and drastically the narrative can swing from week to week. When the bad-breaks pile on, a competitive game can turn into an ugly loss (Bills). Likewise, when all the good-breaks happen at just the right time, a competitive game can turn into a dominant win (Falcons). I don't think we're that much better than Atlanta or that much worse than Buffalo. That's just NFL football.
Absolutely ... Agree with your comment 100%.
Doesn't make the loss feel any better ... But it is good to remember just a week ago we were flying pretty high after beating a likely playoff team on the road pretty handily.
Always a pleasure, Mike.
Well ... Well ... Well
What do we have here?
I am not an Anthony Richardson fan like many Seahawks fans were before the draft and who thought or maybe still think we would have taken him over Spoon. I do not beleive that to be true, and I don't think that the Hawks were ever going to take a QB at 5. The big dog and pony show traveling to meet QBs was a smokescreen but was also to get to know them in case one of them became available.
https://x.com/RapSheet/status/1851316112782475297
Still early but I do think that JS liked AR in the draft. Not enough to draft him at 5. But would he kick some tires here in the next couple years (assuming JS is still the GM)? I think so ... I think that was the point of the QB tour. He knew the odds were that at least a couple of the QBs would fail.
I agree, Mike. I think Richardson was excited for what was planned for him here and shocked when the Colts upset all the plans. He was not ready for primetime and knew it, as did Pete and JS. Schneider will be all over acquiring him for cheap, apparently.
A R who? Saying that Geno is not a SB quality QB is not hating..it's just telling the obvious!
??A R who?<
Anthony Richardson, the Colt's QB who was just benched.
I don't see any "haters" here. I suspect other sites do have them, but suspect it's just become an easier short moniker for grouping "doubters".
This season was never about making the SB. or the playoffs. This season is to evaluate and fix the problem areas. LB and Oline and Geno. As of now, Geno won't be extended. JS and MM need to find their QB. ( maybe a young QB. stuck in the wrong system ala Sam Darnold ) or a draftee or Sam Howell.
Fans expected way too much way too soon. Any thing above 500 would be a good year.
I'll just be looking for improvements week to week.
Here is head coach Mike Mac. Saying pretty much exactly what Pete said last year about Geno.
"Geno's had a great first half of the season" - Mike Mac
Source: https://youtu.be/QRuK6Jm46vU?feature=shared
Roughly 10 minutes in
Mike Mac was asked what the team is good at. He said, among other things, passing the ball and that Geno Smith has been great. I would agree with Coach Mac just as I agreed last year with Legendary Head Coach Pete Carroll.
I shouldn’t have said ‘haters’. Doubters would have been more appropriate. Further, I’m not Geno fan club president, I realize the ‘Geno Dillemma’ is about value as much as skills. He’s younger than Russell Wilson, better than most of the starting QB’s but too expensive for the Hawks? I wonder what he’ll get paid once we let him go, and who will be a better ‘value’ to replace him.
Oh hey, I replied to your comment above before reading this. I'm not surprised you thought it over again and adjusted your phrasing because I know you're not trying to pick a fight or anything.
A good overview.
I would add the one that should be really looked at is JS and his drafts ( still no Devekoped O linemen. Maybe Cross but he is high end of average. The Adams deal ; made no sense. Eskridge He was not needed when the OL was in shambles. 2 2nd round RBs with no one to block.
Geno - let him go. This team is a couple years away. We need the money to fix the holes. Sure we might tank for a a year. But what do we have ? Any all pro players ? Maybe 1-2 pro bowl level ?
McD - this is a hard one. Is he a leader ? Is he in over his head ? I’d give the staff another year to see but so far it makes we wish we went with Quinn.
I might have at least thought about starting this article with the last sentence.
Maybe we get Lucas back, and someone wins the job at RG because they play noticeably better than the other guy. Getting the OL able to open holes for the running game is really important for the rest of the season or we might get the cold shoulder from Kenneth Walker III. I would not blame him one bit. It almost seems like poor strategy to get your RB before you get your OL. Of course, the football god/s have messed up a decent plan when they got Cross and Lucas. But alas, ... something, something about mice and men and how their plans go awry.
mumble, mumble, ... what?
Your comments give me thicker skin sometimes. I'm not always sure if it's tongue in cheek and I have to go back and see what I wrote lol
I am a bit of a gadfly when it seems appropriate and when I think you can take it, but I'm never intentionally mean. I hope you feel that. I leave plenty of comments unsaid for the sake of harmony and kum bai ah.
In turn, I trust that your intentions are always kind and thoughtful.
I’ve seen posts all around how “that game was the worse I’ve ever seen”. Carroll never had teams playing this poorly. People have short term memories. PC first season. Middle of the season. Hawks lost (one road one home) to the “mighty”Raiders and Giants in back to back weeks by a combined 74-10. Seattle defense gave up over 1000 yards in those 2 games. Had all of 50% completions and about 300 total yards. Finished 7-9. And that was an improvement over the Mora season. Sorry folks, PC was never perfect. But he did, with JS, keep working to improve the team.
I don't know who is responsible for scouting O-linemen but whoever and JS don't have a good track record. Now I totally understand everyone says that the college O-linemen are not developed well, BUT Seattle has been woeful in the majority of their selections over a fairly long period of time. A good consistent offense cannot and will not appear unless the O-line is dealt with. So IMHO there needs to be some kind of changes made if nothing else but in philosophy! As far as the rest of the team ( mainly the D, I am fairly confident that as this season moves along and they prepare for the off season and draft etc. MM and his confidants will let JS know what he wants and needs. I know what I would do ( Get a true big nasty NT, probably two if possible and decide what /who you want your LB's to be and to play! This is a learning experience for almost all of this teams coaching and scouting departments, to learn and adjust as they move forward. I truly don't see that this team needs that many new players to be actually very good. Go Hawks!!!
PS- I sure wouldn't be keeping Noah Fant!
I'll go back to pre-season where SSJ brought up the question of who are the blue chip players (or blue chip players in waiting)? 2024 is really all about that, at least to me. Whether we make the playoffs or not, what I would do in the offseason would not change one iota. Some of these guys are Seahawks, some are not. Mike and John have to sort that out. Sure, there might be some bridge players, but prime money should go to nobody that they don't deem true, long-term Seahawks.
As always happens during the season, there's what you expect, and then there is actually what happens. I expected JSN to play a more prominent role. Same for Spoon. Same for Murphy, although my expectations were probably out of whack. Play the season out and see who steps up and who doesn't. A lot of football still to play.
Patience. Mike MacDonald will sort out who he can win with, and who he can't. Depending on how things go, maybe we need 2 offseasons to really get the roster right. I get frustrated after losses like everybody else, but I have to remind myself where we are. We're at the beginning of the journey, not the end.
I think these 4 points are absolutely the core of any team that isn't eyeing a Lombardi. I'd be interested in revisting these again in December and at the end of the season, whenever that may be.
This list is essentially what every owner &/or GM should be doing every year. Even if you have Montana or Favre you might want to grab Young or Rodgers. I think that the Hawks long stretch of decent play limited the quality of players available as first round picks. Not even all high first round picks pan out and probably a lower percentage of later picks are hits.
As I’ve said before, this is JS first season without PC and he hired an all new staff. It’s going to take more than one season to see how this group works, or doesn’t. Unless lightning strikes and they improbably win the SB this season.