Ruining has been very underrated in the West Coast offense. What's that Jerry Rice quick slant, but hitting the recover in stride past the line if scrimmage.
It's an extended 'run' play where you only have to beat the safeties after catch.
When Pete says point guard, that's what he's saying.
Can you imagine a healthy Penny in this offense? I did in the off season, and knew Smith and Lock were/are capable of those throws if we could ruin the ball.
I’m just a few years younger than Pete. Our frame of reference for point guard is Magic Johnson and John Stockton—I.e., we’re not talking about “game managers.”
Identify the Seahawk running back by carries in a season:
The one game we were unable to rush the ball, came on a slippery field and a old school defense. Power runs are leading the way but not against the Bucs lead by the enormous and agile Veta Vea, backed up by possibly the best linebacker duo in the NFL who play all three downs. They can also cover tightends, and other than a spurt in the second half we didn't see much from our excellent trio at tightend. We, Seattle are committed to stopping the run and have been successful in more than half our games, which is my hunch. We too have gone more to a three safety look. Having said that Ryan Neal tackles as well as anybody.
The one constant in all sports and the brain game of all games have one thing in common control the middle of the ice, or your catcher 2nd bagger, short stop center field, interior defensive linemen, or offensive gaurds and center, finally the middle of the chess board. When you are strong in the middle it allows you to attack on the outside on offense or defense. That is the basic formula and the reason AL Woods is so important to us. If you have league average tackles you can help them with the tightend, if you have average gaurds and center there is nobody to help.
In closing two things, number one why does Pete seem to put very little importance on center, in a division that has strong interior defenders, most notably one of the top defenders ever Aaron Donald. Number two we were so quick to move Bobby Wagner out of town they didn't even tell him he was cut. Add to that he is playing for $10 million this season. Surely with 2 QBs adding up to $5.5 million we could have paid Bobby $10 million. That last bit sounds negative but these are more questions, because what P/J have done this year is outstanding.
You're forgetting the $26 million dead cap hit they are "paying" for Russell Wilson. They don't have $10M for Bobby and it would likely have had to be the $18M he had on his Seahawks contract.
It would be nice to get an explanation from PCJS about they put so little value on the center. They traded Unger without a second thought. I think Hunt is the only true center they’ve drafted (Justin Britt and Ethan Pocic were drafted to play other positions.) Since Unger, the following have started:
2015: Drew Novak (!) and Patrick Lewis
2016: Britt and Joey Hunt
2017: Britt
2018: Britt, Hunt, Pocic
2019: Britt, Hunt, Pocic
2020: Pocic, Kyle Fuller
2021: Pocic, Fuller
2022: Austin Blythe
There was some stability from 2016-2019, but nothing that anyone would mistake for All-Pro play. It would be interesting to see how many other teams have a revolving door at center.
If not for some questionable risk management by Pete and Clint Hurtt, the Hawks might have had more success against the Tampa running game.
According to Carroll, they replaced Brian Mone with Myles Adams because Adams is the better pass rusher. Well, fine, but…this is Myles Adams, not Aaron Donald. To get a marginal improvement in the pass rush, they sacrificed a proven run defender. No matter how confident you are that you can stop the run, you don’t run the risk of leaving yourself naked in order to put a feather in your cap. Playing Mone may or may not have changed the outcome, but benching him never made sense.
Matt Hasselbeck was a better QB than Tavaris Jackson. But, the Seahawks released Hasselbeck. Pete Carroll later said that for new leaders to grow, you need to give them an opportunity to grow, and that wasn't going to happen if the de facto leader, Matt Hasselbeck, was still on the team. That is a large reason why they moved on from Wagner. They wanted Brooks and other young players to grow into leaders, and that was not going to happen with Wagner on the team.
Regarding not letting Wagner know, yeah that was bad. There was a leak before the Seahawk brass let him know. Wagner has said he doesn't blame Carroll, Schneider, Chuck Arnold, nor Jody Allen. I hope whoever leaked it before Pete and John got the chance to inform Wagner was fired.
10 million is his salary with the Rams. It was almost double that with the Seahawks.
Opening up leadership opportunities is an important piece of the puzzle that I think Pete puts a lot of stock into. As fans, it's difficult to accept that you would let one (or more) proven leader(s) go to open these opportunities, but as the old guys decline and the young guys improve the leadership transition needs to take place. And, I think you want that transition to begin before you expect to actually be really good at winning games. For all those that relentlessly call for KJ Write to return and can't understand letting Bobby go, this is something to consider. It's not about being better today, but preparing for success over the next few seasons.
Other than Aaron Donald and sticking with my theme Khalil Mack sprung to mind. He is great against the run, consistently pressures the quarterback and often finishes what he sets out to do. After a little more reflection my number 1, TJ Watt, who does reduce inside like Michael Bennett but not as much. What an athletic family, one certain Hall of Famer JJ, with good health another Hall of Famer TJ, and a third brother who is a shrimp compared to his brothers standing only 6ft2 tipping the scales at a weight watchers 232lbs, and will not be in the Hall because he is not known by his initials the forgotten about middle brother and Steeler fullback Derrick. As kids their first love was hockey, talking about screening the goalie.
Talk about validating Pete
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/sudden-struggles-of-tom-brady-and-aaron-rodgers-show-why-teams-should-build-around-qb-limitations-011802183.html
Your analysis is spot on Kenneth
Great article.
Ruining has been very underrated in the West Coast offense. What's that Jerry Rice quick slant, but hitting the recover in stride past the line if scrimmage.
It's an extended 'run' play where you only have to beat the safeties after catch.
When Pete says point guard, that's what he's saying.
Can you imagine a healthy Penny in this offense? I did in the off season, and knew Smith and Lock were/are capable of those throws if we could ruin the ball.
It's working pretty good.
It's early today and I'm having trouble thinking straight, but isn't that also a lot of what Cooper Kupp does too? Extended run plays?
I’m just a few years younger than Pete. Our frame of reference for point guard is Magic Johnson and John Stockton—I.e., we’re not talking about “game managers.”
Identify the Seahawk running back by carries in a season:
A. 370
B. 353
C. 326
D. 315
E. 309
F. 301
Tough game! I only know the top one because I just wrote it.
A-C and are Shaun Alexander. D and E are Marshawn Lynch. No one can say that Mike Holmgren was allergic to running the football.
BTW, Shaun had “only” 295 carries in 2002. On the other hand, he caught 59 (that’s not a typo) passes.
The one game we were unable to rush the ball, came on a slippery field and a old school defense. Power runs are leading the way but not against the Bucs lead by the enormous and agile Veta Vea, backed up by possibly the best linebacker duo in the NFL who play all three downs. They can also cover tightends, and other than a spurt in the second half we didn't see much from our excellent trio at tightend. We, Seattle are committed to stopping the run and have been successful in more than half our games, which is my hunch. We too have gone more to a three safety look. Having said that Ryan Neal tackles as well as anybody.
The one constant in all sports and the brain game of all games have one thing in common control the middle of the ice, or your catcher 2nd bagger, short stop center field, interior defensive linemen, or offensive gaurds and center, finally the middle of the chess board. When you are strong in the middle it allows you to attack on the outside on offense or defense. That is the basic formula and the reason AL Woods is so important to us. If you have league average tackles you can help them with the tightend, if you have average gaurds and center there is nobody to help.
In closing two things, number one why does Pete seem to put very little importance on center, in a division that has strong interior defenders, most notably one of the top defenders ever Aaron Donald. Number two we were so quick to move Bobby Wagner out of town they didn't even tell him he was cut. Add to that he is playing for $10 million this season. Surely with 2 QBs adding up to $5.5 million we could have paid Bobby $10 million. That last bit sounds negative but these are more questions, because what P/J have done this year is outstanding.
You're forgetting the $26 million dead cap hit they are "paying" for Russell Wilson. They don't have $10M for Bobby and it would likely have had to be the $18M he had on his Seahawks contract.
It would be nice to get an explanation from PCJS about they put so little value on the center. They traded Unger without a second thought. I think Hunt is the only true center they’ve drafted (Justin Britt and Ethan Pocic were drafted to play other positions.) Since Unger, the following have started:
2015: Drew Novak (!) and Patrick Lewis
2016: Britt and Joey Hunt
2017: Britt
2018: Britt, Hunt, Pocic
2019: Britt, Hunt, Pocic
2020: Pocic, Kyle Fuller
2021: Pocic, Fuller
2022: Austin Blythe
There was some stability from 2016-2019, but nothing that anyone would mistake for All-Pro play. It would be interesting to see how many other teams have a revolving door at center.
If not for some questionable risk management by Pete and Clint Hurtt, the Hawks might have had more success against the Tampa running game.
According to Carroll, they replaced Brian Mone with Myles Adams because Adams is the better pass rusher. Well, fine, but…this is Myles Adams, not Aaron Donald. To get a marginal improvement in the pass rush, they sacrificed a proven run defender. No matter how confident you are that you can stop the run, you don’t run the risk of leaving yourself naked in order to put a feather in your cap. Playing Mone may or may not have changed the outcome, but benching him never made sense.
Matt Hasselbeck was a better QB than Tavaris Jackson. But, the Seahawks released Hasselbeck. Pete Carroll later said that for new leaders to grow, you need to give them an opportunity to grow, and that wasn't going to happen if the de facto leader, Matt Hasselbeck, was still on the team. That is a large reason why they moved on from Wagner. They wanted Brooks and other young players to grow into leaders, and that was not going to happen with Wagner on the team.
Regarding not letting Wagner know, yeah that was bad. There was a leak before the Seahawk brass let him know. Wagner has said he doesn't blame Carroll, Schneider, Chuck Arnold, nor Jody Allen. I hope whoever leaked it before Pete and John got the chance to inform Wagner was fired.
10 million is his salary with the Rams. It was almost double that with the Seahawks.
Opening up leadership opportunities is an important piece of the puzzle that I think Pete puts a lot of stock into. As fans, it's difficult to accept that you would let one (or more) proven leader(s) go to open these opportunities, but as the old guys decline and the young guys improve the leadership transition needs to take place. And, I think you want that transition to begin before you expect to actually be really good at winning games. For all those that relentlessly call for KJ Write to return and can't understand letting Bobby go, this is something to consider. It's not about being better today, but preparing for success over the next few seasons.
Really good stuff Chris
Yes, the lack of effort to find a good center (and to trade one away) has always baffled me. Aaron Donald embarrasses the Seahawks.
If there was one defensive player in the NFL today on a different team that you could add to the Seahawks to make them better, who would you pick?
Von Miller, Nick Bosa, maybe JPP. I’m not sure AD isn’t near the cliff. But we need effective pass rush more than anything.
Micah Parsons,T.J. Watt, Myles Garrett, Chase Young.
I think there is one Common theme.
Other than Aaron Donald and sticking with my theme Khalil Mack sprung to mind. He is great against the run, consistently pressures the quarterback and often finishes what he sets out to do. After a little more reflection my number 1, TJ Watt, who does reduce inside like Michael Bennett but not as much. What an athletic family, one certain Hall of Famer JJ, with good health another Hall of Famer TJ, and a third brother who is a shrimp compared to his brothers standing only 6ft2 tipping the scales at a weight watchers 232lbs, and will not be in the Hall because he is not known by his initials the forgotten about middle brother and Steeler fullback Derrick. As kids their first love was hockey, talking about screening the goalie.
Why draft TJ Watt (or Ryan Ramczyk or Tre’Davious White or Budda Baker) when you can cleverly amass draft capital and still get Malik McDowell?
Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought Roquine(sp?) Smith could have helped a lot.
He could have helped a lot but the trade cost and salary were big obstacles