The OL works best as a unit that knows how each individual should handle each play. A great WR can dazzle with speed or route running on his own, but the OL has to work together and one missed block can negate 4 good blocks. The fact that this group is still young, but growing in experience together gives me hope for improvement. Bring on the 49ers to see if that optimism is warranted. Go Hawks!
Three underrated reasons why we might be better in 2025 than 2024.
- The TE room. Big difference in the run game, and a much better complement in the pass game. Some 'easy' completions for Darnold when needed, seam route threat especially by Arroyo, and hot reads when Darnold gets blitzed. And a huge difference in the run game. I think the run blocking by the TE's was the 2nd most impressive thing in the KC game.
- Robbie Smash. Adding a true FB is superficially interesting, but the reasons why it will make such a difference are many, and varied. First, attitude. If we're going to be 'hard to play against', we have to beat on the DE's, LB's and secondary.......all game long. TE's kicking out, WR's pinning down, and Robbie Smash standing you up and then knocking you over. Especially in the 4th quarter when nobody wants to face up to it any more. The FB allows the RB's (especially Charbs) to get a head of steam up so they can lower the shoulder and get 5 or 6 yards instead of 2 or 3. Body blows. They may not look like much in the 1st quarter, but they'll matter in the 4th. Robbie Smash will be the icon as to what this offense is about. A Zabel lead block, with Robbie Smash on his heels.......two glorious mustaches roaring at you.....you have no chance.
- Mike MacDonald's bag. Mike didn't get into his bag of tricks much last year. He couldn't. Guys were just getting the concepts down, and getting more than a couple of layers deep into the subterfuge caused some of the principles to get lost. When he simplified things, we played better defense. This year, there probably isn't much he can't dial up. That will matter, especially at critical junctures of the game. If they need to get to Purdy on 3rd and 7, they'll be more likely to cause confusion and chaos.
Considering Ouzts is as big or bigger than half the DEs out there, and 40-50 pounds heavier than the LBs, yeah I’m super excited to see the 4th quarter running. Having Robbie Smash still coming at you in the 4th will be “hard” to take.
I like how we used the preseason to illustrate Ouzts as a receiving threat. Now our opponents, at least early in the season, will need to account for that possibility.
“Maybe there’s nothing to suggest that PFF watches as much football as they claim to watch.” Indeed, but there is much to suggest Zoltan Buday does not have a clue about what he’s talking about. I and many others here in this community have been providing reasons for an improved performance in the O-line since (1) the hire of Kubiak, (2) the draft, and (3) what we’ve seen in the preseason.
“Not because the popular narrative is negative, but only because it IS a “popular narrative”, which means that a lot of people seem to be taking the easy route when it comes to ranking offensive lines and putting the Seahawks at the bottom. It’s fine to put the Seahawks at the bottom, but you have to come with a better argument than “because it’s the Seahawks”.” These lazy “expert” are truly nothing more than regurgitators. They don’t bother doing any of their own research, they repeat the soundbites and tweets of other “experts.” Why not? People still watch them and follow them.
Yes, I agree D Young made this team primarily based on his ability to make big contributions on most special teams units. However, he did have his best preseason ever as a receiver. He look very good at the fan fest and many reported he had a sting of several days at the end of camp where he caught big passes almost every day. I think he may get some chances as a receiver should they choose to rest Kupp/JSN in games for any reason.
One of the images showed draft position for the team. Clearly it shows the value of the 1st two picks. It makes the Adams trade that much more painful.
“My Man” Jacob was me as a kid when he was sacking guys like cry baby Elway. Jumping up from the coach high fiving no one. Loved Green (and Joe and Manu and Bryant). Joe so “small” and yet blocking FGs.
When it comes to NFL rankings, they really should use the system these use for Wins and Losses. Add a floor and ceiling ranking.
For example: yes our Oline was terrible last year, so a pundit ranks our Oline 25th. If Zabel doesn't play as well or Lucas gets injured again, floor is 29th. But with the addition of John Benton, Kubiak Oline/QB friendly system, Zabel doing better as predicted and Lucas healthy all year, ceiling is 19th.
Conventional thinking in recent years has been that college linemen aren’t ready to play in the pro game. So they need a couple years to learn. Experience matters. So here we are, with Cross and Lucas, 3 years’ training, Bradford, 2 years under his belt, Sundell and Olu 1 yr, and the rook Zabel starting fresh. And then I think about Glowinski and Pocic, guys that we gave up on after 3 and 4 years respectively, who went on to long NFL starting careers.
We have youth with experience on this line. Zabel needs to be a special talent to excel this year. There’s reason to believe he will be. Sundell and Bradford need to step into their starting roles. Cross and Lucas are ready to launch into their prime years. 4 of these 5 guys have one more year of NFL experience than they did last year, and that by itself gives me “reason to believe” we’ll be better. The other points in the article (scheme, Zabel added, etc) - add more reason to believe, for sure. Good test coming this Sunday, here we go!
Been saying that for more than a year. Read an article quoting many offensive coaches upset with college. My conclusion from that article is the “Madden” play calling in college ball, while entertaining, stunts OLine kids. SJ has done several quality articles noting it. Fries sucks for 3 years. Becton a “bust” until his 4th year and team (coaches) change.
The story should be that the Seahawks are at or near the top of teams who are likely to have better performance from their OL.
First, they were bad last year. That leaves lots of room for improvement. The best OLs are least likely to improve.
And then we have a new offensive staff with positive history, a new focus from the top of the organization, a first round pick, and so on.
And then there’s that magnet of the mean thing. Staying at the bottom is unlikely for teams that aren’t a dysfunctional mess. And for teams to stay at the top is really hard.
How much improvement will we see? Let’s find out over the next few months.
One thing about having a terrible year is this year everybody can point to it as an example of What Not To Do. Spoken or unspoken, it is a rallying point. All the Gone Guys are gone for good reasons. Mike has brought a "Twelve As One" focus, meaning a failure of one is a failure of all. Find a way, if just a word spoken in season, to get your Buddy to succeed. I suspect he has been culling out the independent contractors. Guys who "don't get it", opting for Heart over experience.
I agree 100%. They had full participation in OTAs and MM called that out as a reflection of who they are. In preseason, when a defender made a great play, the whole defense ran out on the field, penalty be damned. This is the most “no bullshit” Seahawks team that I remember. They seem focused, determined, mature, and professional. Even after the loss in Green Bay, nobody flinched.
We will see if this spirit holds up. For now, the compass is clearly pointing north. Or should I say, “northwest.”
Great clip! Jarran didn’t hesitate once. That didn’t feel rehearsed. It felt real.
It feels like this team has the resilience to weather storms.
Also, for the first time in years, it doesn’t feel like the team has any holes. Sure, there might be better players at various positions, but it feels like every unit could make a big play at any time. No weak links in the chain.
The other thing on these rankings is there have been some VERY good OL retirements -- Zack Martin, Frank Ragnow, Jason Kelce, Tyron Smith, Terron Armstead, Ryan Ramcyzk, David Andrews, Mitch Morse, and then Becton gone from the Eagles, several other line disruptions from FA. Don't know that we jump any of those lines per se, but many of them have to be coming back to the field without those guys. Seattle clearly going the other way, so yeah we should def jump up
I believe that football analysis would be much better if they start every team at 16 rather than what they finished at the year prior.
There is so much turnover in football due to draft, free agency, injuries and coaching that just simply taking whatever a team finished the prior year is bad analysis.
I don't really care much about these rankings that everyone loves to post and talk about (fun to talk about etc. just football fodder). But I do think they would be much better if they started a team like the Seahawks at 16th ranked and then say why or why not they are 16th ranked, rather starting them at 31st ranked and claiming it is such a bold outside the box conclusion to put them at 13. To me, it is far more likely that the Hawks have the 13th best line than the 31st!
Also, we can add the Seahawks pretty bold and out of character move to try and get Fries in Free Agency. I think JS has done a complete 180 after losing Damien Lewis and his infamous comment on interior lineman. It is good to see.
Can't wait to roll the football out there on Sunday. I am really unsure how good this Niners team is. Seahawks O-line vs the Niners D-line will be a battle I want to watch closely. Could the Seahawks punch them in the mouth? Hopes are high but I have no idea. Just looking forward to it.
If they do, that would be epic. But I also have no idea. Shannahan and McVay are such good coaches, they seem to give us a fight if half of their teams are blown apart. The Rams offensive backups gave our starting defense problems in the last game last year. McVay made the game simple for the QB, and he just took what the defense gave him. I hated watching that game. It felt like we won, but we lost.
But we have Mike MacDonald, and I'm hoping this year we give THEM fits instead of the other way around. It's basically what has to happen if we are going to own the division. We need to beat good teams, and thrash bad ones. If we can't do that, we are undeserving.
As is usual for me, I become less confident as we get close to week 1. I think the roster is very solid. I feel like the team is a TEAM. I feel like we have good coaches, and a good plan on both sides of the ball. But until you put it all together in a real game against a good opponent, it's hard to feel confident with it. If we pound San Fran, all bets are off.
“There is so much turnover in football due to draft, free agency, injuries and coaching that just simply taking whatever a team finished the prior year is bad analysis.”
I tried to watch the All-22 “preview” of the Niners game. I gave up after 10-12 minutes because the guy couldn’t let go of last year’s games. (Plus he was about as engaging as the best friend of a 79-year old uncle.)
The OL works best as a unit that knows how each individual should handle each play. A great WR can dazzle with speed or route running on his own, but the OL has to work together and one missed block can negate 4 good blocks. The fact that this group is still young, but growing in experience together gives me hope for improvement. Bring on the 49ers to see if that optimism is warranted. Go Hawks!
Three underrated reasons why we might be better in 2025 than 2024.
- The TE room. Big difference in the run game, and a much better complement in the pass game. Some 'easy' completions for Darnold when needed, seam route threat especially by Arroyo, and hot reads when Darnold gets blitzed. And a huge difference in the run game. I think the run blocking by the TE's was the 2nd most impressive thing in the KC game.
- Robbie Smash. Adding a true FB is superficially interesting, but the reasons why it will make such a difference are many, and varied. First, attitude. If we're going to be 'hard to play against', we have to beat on the DE's, LB's and secondary.......all game long. TE's kicking out, WR's pinning down, and Robbie Smash standing you up and then knocking you over. Especially in the 4th quarter when nobody wants to face up to it any more. The FB allows the RB's (especially Charbs) to get a head of steam up so they can lower the shoulder and get 5 or 6 yards instead of 2 or 3. Body blows. They may not look like much in the 1st quarter, but they'll matter in the 4th. Robbie Smash will be the icon as to what this offense is about. A Zabel lead block, with Robbie Smash on his heels.......two glorious mustaches roaring at you.....you have no chance.
- Mike MacDonald's bag. Mike didn't get into his bag of tricks much last year. He couldn't. Guys were just getting the concepts down, and getting more than a couple of layers deep into the subterfuge caused some of the principles to get lost. When he simplified things, we played better defense. This year, there probably isn't much he can't dial up. That will matter, especially at critical junctures of the game. If they need to get to Purdy on 3rd and 7, they'll be more likely to cause confusion and chaos.
Considering Ouzts is as big or bigger than half the DEs out there, and 40-50 pounds heavier than the LBs, yeah I’m super excited to see the 4th quarter running. Having Robbie Smash still coming at you in the 4th will be “hard” to take.
I like how we used the preseason to illustrate Ouzts as a receiving threat. Now our opponents, at least early in the season, will need to account for that possibility.
two glorious mustaches roaring at you.....you have no chance.
Made my week...
“Maybe there’s nothing to suggest that PFF watches as much football as they claim to watch.” Indeed, but there is much to suggest Zoltan Buday does not have a clue about what he’s talking about. I and many others here in this community have been providing reasons for an improved performance in the O-line since (1) the hire of Kubiak, (2) the draft, and (3) what we’ve seen in the preseason.
“Not because the popular narrative is negative, but only because it IS a “popular narrative”, which means that a lot of people seem to be taking the easy route when it comes to ranking offensive lines and putting the Seahawks at the bottom. It’s fine to put the Seahawks at the bottom, but you have to come with a better argument than “because it’s the Seahawks”.” These lazy “expert” are truly nothing more than regurgitators. They don’t bother doing any of their own research, they repeat the soundbites and tweets of other “experts.” Why not? People still watch them and follow them.
Yes, I agree D Young made this team primarily based on his ability to make big contributions on most special teams units. However, he did have his best preseason ever as a receiver. He look very good at the fan fest and many reported he had a sting of several days at the end of camp where he caught big passes almost every day. I think he may get some chances as a receiver should they choose to rest Kupp/JSN in games for any reason.
One of the images showed draft position for the team. Clearly it shows the value of the 1st two picks. It makes the Adams trade that much more painful.
Second try, Jacob Green.
“My Man” Jacob was me as a kid when he was sacking guys like cry baby Elway. Jumping up from the coach high fiving no one. Loved Green (and Joe and Manu and Bryant). Joe so “small” and yet blocking FGs.
Steve Largent, but I cheated.
My bad, he was not drafted by Seattle.
But he never played a game for anyone else.
In other news, Prisco opened up the season with the Seahawks at 22 in his power rankings. Last in the NFC West.
He’s another no nothing in my book.
I can't stand Prisco...
Thanks for the vids. I love the All-22 content. He’s so good.
When it comes to NFL rankings, they really should use the system these use for Wins and Losses. Add a floor and ceiling ranking.
For example: yes our Oline was terrible last year, so a pundit ranks our Oline 25th. If Zabel doesn't play as well or Lucas gets injured again, floor is 29th. But with the addition of John Benton, Kubiak Oline/QB friendly system, Zabel doing better as predicted and Lucas healthy all year, ceiling is 19th.
I'm guessing Steve Austin under Jack Patera
No, but he was the first @ $6m.
Conventional thinking in recent years has been that college linemen aren’t ready to play in the pro game. So they need a couple years to learn. Experience matters. So here we are, with Cross and Lucas, 3 years’ training, Bradford, 2 years under his belt, Sundell and Olu 1 yr, and the rook Zabel starting fresh. And then I think about Glowinski and Pocic, guys that we gave up on after 3 and 4 years respectively, who went on to long NFL starting careers.
We have youth with experience on this line. Zabel needs to be a special talent to excel this year. There’s reason to believe he will be. Sundell and Bradford need to step into their starting roles. Cross and Lucas are ready to launch into their prime years. 4 of these 5 guys have one more year of NFL experience than they did last year, and that by itself gives me “reason to believe” we’ll be better. The other points in the article (scheme, Zabel added, etc) - add more reason to believe, for sure. Good test coming this Sunday, here we go!
Been saying that for more than a year. Read an article quoting many offensive coaches upset with college. My conclusion from that article is the “Madden” play calling in college ball, while entertaining, stunts OLine kids. SJ has done several quality articles noting it. Fries sucks for 3 years. Becton a “bust” until his 4th year and team (coaches) change.
Nice "suggestion" reasons
The story should be that the Seahawks are at or near the top of teams who are likely to have better performance from their OL.
First, they were bad last year. That leaves lots of room for improvement. The best OLs are least likely to improve.
And then we have a new offensive staff with positive history, a new focus from the top of the organization, a first round pick, and so on.
And then there’s that magnet of the mean thing. Staying at the bottom is unlikely for teams that aren’t a dysfunctional mess. And for teams to stay at the top is really hard.
How much improvement will we see? Let’s find out over the next few months.
One thing about having a terrible year is this year everybody can point to it as an example of What Not To Do. Spoken or unspoken, it is a rallying point. All the Gone Guys are gone for good reasons. Mike has brought a "Twelve As One" focus, meaning a failure of one is a failure of all. Find a way, if just a word spoken in season, to get your Buddy to succeed. I suspect he has been culling out the independent contractors. Guys who "don't get it", opting for Heart over experience.
I agree 100%. They had full participation in OTAs and MM called that out as a reflection of who they are. In preseason, when a defender made a great play, the whole defense ran out on the field, penalty be damned. This is the most “no bullshit” Seahawks team that I remember. They seem focused, determined, mature, and professional. Even after the loss in Green Bay, nobody flinched.
We will see if this spirit holds up. For now, the compass is clearly pointing north. Or should I say, “northwest.”
I'm liking Jarran Reed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnG08vADv0k
Great clip! Jarran didn’t hesitate once. That didn’t feel rehearsed. It felt real.
It feels like this team has the resilience to weather storms.
Also, for the first time in years, it doesn’t feel like the team has any holes. Sure, there might be better players at various positions, but it feels like every unit could make a big play at any time. No weak links in the chain.
My annual 20-0 prediction stands.
The other thing on these rankings is there have been some VERY good OL retirements -- Zack Martin, Frank Ragnow, Jason Kelce, Tyron Smith, Terron Armstead, Ryan Ramcyzk, David Andrews, Mitch Morse, and then Becton gone from the Eagles, several other line disruptions from FA. Don't know that we jump any of those lines per se, but many of them have to be coming back to the field without those guys. Seattle clearly going the other way, so yeah we should def jump up
I believe that football analysis would be much better if they start every team at 16 rather than what they finished at the year prior.
There is so much turnover in football due to draft, free agency, injuries and coaching that just simply taking whatever a team finished the prior year is bad analysis.
I don't really care much about these rankings that everyone loves to post and talk about (fun to talk about etc. just football fodder). But I do think they would be much better if they started a team like the Seahawks at 16th ranked and then say why or why not they are 16th ranked, rather starting them at 31st ranked and claiming it is such a bold outside the box conclusion to put them at 13. To me, it is far more likely that the Hawks have the 13th best line than the 31st!
Also, we can add the Seahawks pretty bold and out of character move to try and get Fries in Free Agency. I think JS has done a complete 180 after losing Damien Lewis and his infamous comment on interior lineman. It is good to see.
Can't wait to roll the football out there on Sunday. I am really unsure how good this Niners team is. Seahawks O-line vs the Niners D-line will be a battle I want to watch closely. Could the Seahawks punch them in the mouth? Hopes are high but I have no idea. Just looking forward to it.
"Could the Seahawks punch them in the mouth?"
If they do, that would be epic. But I also have no idea. Shannahan and McVay are such good coaches, they seem to give us a fight if half of their teams are blown apart. The Rams offensive backups gave our starting defense problems in the last game last year. McVay made the game simple for the QB, and he just took what the defense gave him. I hated watching that game. It felt like we won, but we lost.
But we have Mike MacDonald, and I'm hoping this year we give THEM fits instead of the other way around. It's basically what has to happen if we are going to own the division. We need to beat good teams, and thrash bad ones. If we can't do that, we are undeserving.
As is usual for me, I become less confident as we get close to week 1. I think the roster is very solid. I feel like the team is a TEAM. I feel like we have good coaches, and a good plan on both sides of the ball. But until you put it all together in a real game against a good opponent, it's hard to feel confident with it. If we pound San Fran, all bets are off.
“There is so much turnover in football due to draft, free agency, injuries and coaching that just simply taking whatever a team finished the prior year is bad analysis.”
I tried to watch the All-22 “preview” of the Niners game. I gave up after 10-12 minutes because the guy couldn’t let go of last year’s games. (Plus he was about as engaging as the best friend of a 79-year old uncle.)
Some of those 79 year old uncles can be pretty engaging,
"Maybe there’s nothing to suggest that PFF watches as much football as they claim to watch." This had me chuckling. Thanks SJ!
F*ckin fire, dude.
I could've sworn I read a "boom!" After that sick burn, but maybe it was just me projecting my desire to high-five Ken in there.