Here is what I don’t get from parts of the NFL draft fandom (Rob Staton for example): “A good QB could be drafted into a bad situation and will ruin or end his career. Where a rookie gets drafted to is extremely important to his success”
Also, the same person, “Drew Lock sucks. We know he sucks because we have seen it in the NFL”
What happened to the situation mattering? 🤔🤔🤔
And I agree with you, I would not classify Lock as sucking. He has things to work on (accuracy/decision making), but he also has a superior skill: air yards (down field passing). He is very strong down field, which, happens to be one thing Pete loves to go with the run game.
Self-contradiction from that particular source is not a rare occurrence. I once inadvertently summoned the wrath of Mt Olympus by commenting that the Seattle track record drafting RB talent was pretty good--they had just had bad luck with Penny and Prosise (this was before the 2022 draft). A few weeks later, I was taken to the woodshed again when I asked why they were so poor at drafting TEs.* I was informed that the process was sound, they had just had bad luck. By then I had figured out that it was pointless to ask why process didn’t matter with RBs but did with TEs. At about this time, another commenter mentioned that he was enjoying reading Seaside Joe. Life hasn’t been the same since.
* I didn’t know then that just about every team is bad at drafting TEs.
You wrote: "There is something to be said for the fact that Lock had an opportunity with the Denver Broncos and blew it, which is something that few quarterbacks come have come back from,"
I know Drew wasn't great, and records are records, but he didn't really blow it. For where he's at in his career, he's waaaaay ahead of draft picks that haven't thrown a pass in the League. Denver was a 'semi-pro' training ground for Lock to get reps and get ready for his Geno opportunity.
The last game of the '21 season, he played a nice game and had them in position to win when the running back fumbled.
Drew had some issues that needed correcting. But coaching changes and philosophies did not help him develop. I LOVE what Seattle's doing with him, and I knew they wouldn't take a QB in either draft (unless they had a draftable grade on Horner or another lower round QB). They were going to get Reed, and Macintosh was just too much to pass on--pun intended.
McCall is exactly the type of QB I see them going after next year if they do. But Geno's going to be fine, improve, and those two are going to make the QB situation a moot point, probably through the Carroll years.
For sure. I don't want people to take it as me saying, "oh this guy was so bad and it's all his fault" and I maybe I was too flippant when I summarized his situation that way as "he blew it". After all, I endorse Drew Lock in this article.
Was Drew Lock one of the worst QBs in the NFL in 2020? Yes. Lock was one of the worst QBs in the NFL. Weird year, bad coach, tons of variables to consider. I neither want to dismiss what was working against him or do I want to get people overly enthusiastic about the prospect of Lock becoming a long-term NFL starter. He could turn out to be one of the exceptions, but he will no less be an exception if that ever happens.
Lock's decision making is what's done him in. He may never manage to speed up his processing to where it needs to be to find success at this level, or maybe he will. But that's the challenge as I see it.
Are his chances better than Zach Wilson or Trey Lance. In my view, Wilson and Lance have a better shot at turning into starting NFL talent. I'd put Lock more on par with Daniel Jones or Mack Jones or even Justin Fields (who so far does not look like a workable starter). Jones doesn't have the arm talent of Lance or Lock. He can't run like Fields. Tua's another young QB who hasn't shown enough.
Off-topic, but on Moving The Chains on NFL radio, as they go through and rate each position room for each NFL team, player by player, Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan both had Seattle in the Top-5 TE rooms in the league (3rd and 4th, respectively). I knew we were decent, but I was pleasantly surprised, as it speaks to the depth at that position for us.
Nice job, Ken, of balancing the article for those of us focusing on the now and those of us that like looking forward! Also, nice McCall-out at the end!
I appreciate you linking the McCall article from before. I wasn't subscribed when it was 1st published, and I can't go back and read everything you ever wrote. It seems an awful lot like how the Spoon love developed in you (and me as I read it with a critical eye). So, just maybe.....
I agree with your thought that maybe they find a market inefficiency and snag a guy after his rookie contract, in effect letting another team break him in and signing him to finish the training... I thought about Malik Willis and how funny it would be that after he fell to us and we passed, he could fall to us 4 years later.
The Hawks have (basically) come out and said that pick 5 was between Spoon and WA. We will never know if that is true but there is extremely good reason to believe AR was not on their board for the 5th pick. But I do think the Hawks would've been interested further down the board or in 3-4 years if there is an opportunity to get him.
This would be a similar situation to the Lock situation we find ourselves in currently. The hawks have liked Lock since the draft and kept tabs on him. They snagged him when the opportunity presented itself. Lock was neck in neck or maybe even ahead after he outperformed Geno in the scrimmage game at Lumen field. He may have been able to win the job if it weren't for covid. All of that is not to say he would've started over Geno but it is to say that it was a close race. "We have two number 1 QBs"
It is great to see Joe coming out balanced on this topic. Franchises spend years and years and years trying to draft the magic QB that will fix all their problems. It is great to see the Hawks not fall for this. They may have even found a market inefficiency to grab QBs after their rookie contracts end. As rookies are now coming into the league younger and younger and are likely to struggle. Even Josh Allen struggled for his first 2 years before taking off. Will Lock be the same? It's possible.
The bigger issue the Hawks face is how long will Lock stick around as backup? It is important to note that he just got a nice pay raise this year. Being a backup isn't too bad. But it depends on the market. Ideally the market will still overlook him, and he sticks around for the next 2-3 years or whenever Geno is ready to pass the torch.
We will see, but overall, the Seahawks QB situation is in very good shape.
I like your comments. I wanted Lock over Geno because of the DUI and ensuing issues with law enforcement (which he has never addressed, and it's still a mark against him). I really don't think it was as close as most of us thought. Geno had the lead and leadership in the building, and Drew was still trying to find his way. I think they saw this playing out this way, and the word to Drew is that you have the template right in front of you. Show Geno-like backup integrity and we'll give you your shot if you keep preparing. It's an ideal situation for the team and those two players.
Totally agree the QB position with the players and their team friendly contracts have the Seahawks in good shape there.
The QB position is also interesting because of the age. At what age would a QB be considered prime? As Joe points out he is not very old. A couple more years collecting a million a year while not taking hits to put you in a great position when 28-29 to have a 4-6+ year run could be an attractive or more attractive option than going somewhere else with a chance to start. Or a bad team and starting.
For me the fact that the Seahawks did not bundle their picks to move up said they did not consider Young to be an Allen level prospect. The number 5 pick was a question of whether the Seahawks felt that Levis gave them a better chance to win than Geno over the next few years. They didn’t might have been different if Stroud or Richardson were there. The 2nd round picks said they think Lock remains a better potential starter than this year’s group. Beyond that we can only guess.
I think it was someone at Field Gulls who pointed out we'll probably see a lot of Lock in camp and preseason because the Seahawks know what they have in Geno so they'll be incentivized to see if Lock merits continued investment after a year of sitting behind Geno or if he's *just* a temporary back-up they should plan to move on from.
Personally it's a no for me on Lock, I don't think his in-game processing will ever improve enough. It's just shocking how hard it is to find any human beings with all the skills and traits to be a successful NFL QB. Certainly one of the toughest roles to fill in all of sports.
Great point about Lock getting quality pre-season time, but then you point to his lack of in-game processing. That's not something that can improve with reps, knowledge of the system (which he got jockeyed around on in Denver, and confidence?
I'm looking forward to seeing him improve in those areas. Otherwise, he won't be long for it.
It is an incredibly hard mind-body skill and even the best have a fail rate. I think Lock deserves more opportunity to show what he can do, just as Geno got - and he definitely hasn’t shown he’s mastered it fully yet.
Definitely will see a lot of Lock in the preseason, if for no other reason than to protect Geno from injury. I think he has shown he can play well, but he has shown inconsistency and a tendency to make key mistakes. Sounds like immaturity or lack of experience and patience, to me. These are things that a good system can improve, and even correct, over time. I know he played in DEN, but that was not GOOD growth experience. We may have something in him, yet; and if not, it didn't cost us or set our franchise back any. He's a low-risk investment right now. We're in a good spot at the position now and going forward. Well played, JSPC, well played.
I hope Lock is in the best possible physical shape, and works as hard as Geno, despite the fact that he is the backup. The chances are pretty high that the Hawks will need both quarterbacks this season in some proportion.
I'm on the Grayson McCall train. Let's make some noise, and let Pete know we'd like him to take a look at a day three hidden gem.
Next time just put Grayson in the title.
hahaha
Excellent comment.
Here is what I don’t get from parts of the NFL draft fandom (Rob Staton for example): “A good QB could be drafted into a bad situation and will ruin or end his career. Where a rookie gets drafted to is extremely important to his success”
Also, the same person, “Drew Lock sucks. We know he sucks because we have seen it in the NFL”
What happened to the situation mattering? 🤔🤔🤔
And I agree with you, I would not classify Lock as sucking. He has things to work on (accuracy/decision making), but he also has a superior skill: air yards (down field passing). He is very strong down field, which, happens to be one thing Pete loves to go with the run game.
Self-contradiction from that particular source is not a rare occurrence. I once inadvertently summoned the wrath of Mt Olympus by commenting that the Seattle track record drafting RB talent was pretty good--they had just had bad luck with Penny and Prosise (this was before the 2022 draft). A few weeks later, I was taken to the woodshed again when I asked why they were so poor at drafting TEs.* I was informed that the process was sound, they had just had bad luck. By then I had figured out that it was pointless to ask why process didn’t matter with RBs but did with TEs. At about this time, another commenter mentioned that he was enjoying reading Seaside Joe. Life hasn’t been the same since.
* I didn’t know then that just about every team is bad at drafting TEs.
Haha ... that is hilarious. Pretty obvious hypocrisy! But ... what’s new?
This was supposed to be for 10to80 comment
You wrote: "There is something to be said for the fact that Lock had an opportunity with the Denver Broncos and blew it, which is something that few quarterbacks come have come back from,"
I know Drew wasn't great, and records are records, but he didn't really blow it. For where he's at in his career, he's waaaaay ahead of draft picks that haven't thrown a pass in the League. Denver was a 'semi-pro' training ground for Lock to get reps and get ready for his Geno opportunity.
The last game of the '21 season, he played a nice game and had them in position to win when the running back fumbled.
Drew had some issues that needed correcting. But coaching changes and philosophies did not help him develop. I LOVE what Seattle's doing with him, and I knew they wouldn't take a QB in either draft (unless they had a draftable grade on Horner or another lower round QB). They were going to get Reed, and Macintosh was just too much to pass on--pun intended.
McCall is exactly the type of QB I see them going after next year if they do. But Geno's going to be fine, improve, and those two are going to make the QB situation a moot point, probably through the Carroll years.
Great article.
For sure. I don't want people to take it as me saying, "oh this guy was so bad and it's all his fault" and I maybe I was too flippant when I summarized his situation that way as "he blew it". After all, I endorse Drew Lock in this article.
Was Drew Lock one of the worst QBs in the NFL in 2020? Yes. Lock was one of the worst QBs in the NFL. Weird year, bad coach, tons of variables to consider. I neither want to dismiss what was working against him or do I want to get people overly enthusiastic about the prospect of Lock becoming a long-term NFL starter. He could turn out to be one of the exceptions, but he will no less be an exception if that ever happens.
Yes, Kenneth, is a fair, very good article. I might be a bit too optimistic so there's that!
Passes were thrown, passes were picked off. That's not good (might make a good movie line).
Lock's decision making is what's done him in. He may never manage to speed up his processing to where it needs to be to find success at this level, or maybe he will. But that's the challenge as I see it.
Are his chances better than Zach Wilson or Trey Lance. In my view, Wilson and Lance have a better shot at turning into starting NFL talent. I'd put Lock more on par with Daniel Jones or Mack Jones or even Justin Fields (who so far does not look like a workable starter). Jones doesn't have the arm talent of Lance or Lock. He can't run like Fields. Tua's another young QB who hasn't shown enough.
replied above. Great comment 👍🏼
Off-topic, but on Moving The Chains on NFL radio, as they go through and rate each position room for each NFL team, player by player, Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan both had Seattle in the Top-5 TE rooms in the league (3rd and 4th, respectively). I knew we were decent, but I was pleasantly surprised, as it speaks to the depth at that position for us.
Nice job, Ken, of balancing the article for those of us focusing on the now and those of us that like looking forward! Also, nice McCall-out at the end!
I appreciate you linking the McCall article from before. I wasn't subscribed when it was 1st published, and I can't go back and read everything you ever wrote. It seems an awful lot like how the Spoon love developed in you (and me as I read it with a critical eye). So, just maybe.....
I agree with your thought that maybe they find a market inefficiency and snag a guy after his rookie contract, in effect letting another team break him in and signing him to finish the training... I thought about Malik Willis and how funny it would be that after he fell to us and we passed, he could fall to us 4 years later.
Absolutely!
I also think this is part of the reason the hawks do their research on QBs every year.
What are the chances Anthony Richardson gets a second contract with the colts?
This was a reply to Mike McD's post at 7:48pm.
Laps for Lock! I'm still waiting to run!
Excellent stuff here.
The Hawks have (basically) come out and said that pick 5 was between Spoon and WA. We will never know if that is true but there is extremely good reason to believe AR was not on their board for the 5th pick. But I do think the Hawks would've been interested further down the board or in 3-4 years if there is an opportunity to get him.
This would be a similar situation to the Lock situation we find ourselves in currently. The hawks have liked Lock since the draft and kept tabs on him. They snagged him when the opportunity presented itself. Lock was neck in neck or maybe even ahead after he outperformed Geno in the scrimmage game at Lumen field. He may have been able to win the job if it weren't for covid. All of that is not to say he would've started over Geno but it is to say that it was a close race. "We have two number 1 QBs"
It is great to see Joe coming out balanced on this topic. Franchises spend years and years and years trying to draft the magic QB that will fix all their problems. It is great to see the Hawks not fall for this. They may have even found a market inefficiency to grab QBs after their rookie contracts end. As rookies are now coming into the league younger and younger and are likely to struggle. Even Josh Allen struggled for his first 2 years before taking off. Will Lock be the same? It's possible.
The bigger issue the Hawks face is how long will Lock stick around as backup? It is important to note that he just got a nice pay raise this year. Being a backup isn't too bad. But it depends on the market. Ideally the market will still overlook him, and he sticks around for the next 2-3 years or whenever Geno is ready to pass the torch.
We will see, but overall, the Seahawks QB situation is in very good shape.
I like your comments. I wanted Lock over Geno because of the DUI and ensuing issues with law enforcement (which he has never addressed, and it's still a mark against him). I really don't think it was as close as most of us thought. Geno had the lead and leadership in the building, and Drew was still trying to find his way. I think they saw this playing out this way, and the word to Drew is that you have the template right in front of you. Show Geno-like backup integrity and we'll give you your shot if you keep preparing. It's an ideal situation for the team and those two players.
Totally agree the QB position with the players and their team friendly contracts have the Seahawks in good shape there.
Good points.
The QB position is also interesting because of the age. At what age would a QB be considered prime? As Joe points out he is not very old. A couple more years collecting a million a year while not taking hits to put you in a great position when 28-29 to have a 4-6+ year run could be an attractive or more attractive option than going somewhere else with a chance to start. Or a bad team and starting.
It would be like Carroll to develop a new way of doing things.
He always seemed to have a stable of guys that were blue chippers at SC so it's not a new world to him.
In fact, Seaside, that might be an interesting article if there are parallels between Pete's USC days and his Seahawks success.
For me the fact that the Seahawks did not bundle their picks to move up said they did not consider Young to be an Allen level prospect. The number 5 pick was a question of whether the Seahawks felt that Levis gave them a better chance to win than Geno over the next few years. They didn’t might have been different if Stroud or Richardson were there. The 2nd round picks said they think Lock remains a better potential starter than this year’s group. Beyond that we can only guess.
I think it was someone at Field Gulls who pointed out we'll probably see a lot of Lock in camp and preseason because the Seahawks know what they have in Geno so they'll be incentivized to see if Lock merits continued investment after a year of sitting behind Geno or if he's *just* a temporary back-up they should plan to move on from.
Personally it's a no for me on Lock, I don't think his in-game processing will ever improve enough. It's just shocking how hard it is to find any human beings with all the skills and traits to be a successful NFL QB. Certainly one of the toughest roles to fill in all of sports.
Great point about Lock getting quality pre-season time, but then you point to his lack of in-game processing. That's not something that can improve with reps, knowledge of the system (which he got jockeyed around on in Denver, and confidence?
I'm looking forward to seeing him improve in those areas. Otherwise, he won't be long for it.
It is an incredibly hard mind-body skill and even the best have a fail rate. I think Lock deserves more opportunity to show what he can do, just as Geno got - and he definitely hasn’t shown he’s mastered it fully yet.
Definitely will see a lot of Lock in the preseason, if for no other reason than to protect Geno from injury. I think he has shown he can play well, but he has shown inconsistency and a tendency to make key mistakes. Sounds like immaturity or lack of experience and patience, to me. These are things that a good system can improve, and even correct, over time. I know he played in DEN, but that was not GOOD growth experience. We may have something in him, yet; and if not, it didn't cost us or set our franchise back any. He's a low-risk investment right now. We're in a good spot at the position now and going forward. Well played, JSPC, well played.
I hope Lock is in the best possible physical shape, and works as hard as Geno, despite the fact that he is the backup. The chances are pretty high that the Hawks will need both quarterbacks this season in some proportion.