I'm thinking a couple of the guys who surpised us by making the 53 only made it as placeholders so we could cut them when signing players directly to our active roster. The guys we really wanted to keep, like Pili and Bohanna we put on our practice squad to allow us to hang onto them while giving these new guys a look-see, since we have to sign them to the active.
Yeah I heard someone else mention that too. I like our depth players (Josh Jobe, Nehemiah Pritchett, Shaquill Griffin) and would prefer that bunch over Kendrick...wonder what they saw.
Let me try out a theory here, and I won't be hurt if it gets shouted down (or gently pushed aside).
This is a REALLY young team. JS knew how many draft choices he was going to have, and got more. And he knows how many contracts he's got to negotiate this season, or after this season. Either way, it's still a really young team. 20% rookie.
I suspect the free agent signing this year were as much about selecting players with specific qualities they would bring to the culture as it was about money or skill. Lawrence and Kupp are both guys with a reputation for being fit and staying fit, and that's part of why they're still in the league. Clearly McD values that. I mean, every team does, but McD seems to place a premium on it. They're also mentors and leaders and guys who know how to prepare. (MVS is a somewhat different story, but we've talked that into dust.) They're culture-setters, they show the young guys what it takes to stay in the league. That may also be why you keep Cody White on the 53.
I do think there's a certain kind of attitude MM wants the team to have, and DK didn't have it, and maybe Geno didn't have it, and maybe that's part of why they're not on the team.
Not sure I said what I meant to but that's enough words for now.
Other than here, I don't see/hear other articles or podcasters taking issue much with John Schneider's decision making. It's a gamble which a gambler is likely to lose if the whole truth ever came out. But SSJ rolled those dice and I admire gutsy bets. It's news that needed telling. If anything, it points at an organization in disarray and it sure as hell was. MacDonald was recently interviewed saying Kubiak had asked them if any changes were in the works before he commited to coming here and MM told him "Nothing big". A few days later, all hell broke loose. So yeah, the Ship needed righting, just like SSJ needed writing. All that matters is these guys have built one tough troop of Seahawk athletes and SSJ is pumping out one helluvan unmatched Daily, warts and all.
Is there a reason we signed a player from both San Francisco and LA? I can't help but believe that MVS was enticing to the Niners because of his position and knowledge gained during time with the Seahawks and Kubiak. Did we sign the players from the NFC West teams to get intel in addition to a player in a position of need from a depth standpoint?
I always wonder that. I would assume most teams have tape, but there has to be deviations that teams haven't used yet that a former player can discuss so his team can plan for it. But that's a lot of work on potential intel that may not be anything.
A key point of this post - that JS has not proven that he can acquire top veteran contributors for this team - I completely agree. The Big 3 will change the story, one way or another. MVS, whatever, I don’t care about the $3M, it’s a rounding error for Jodi and we have $30M of cap space. The sausage-making aspect of roster construction isn’t something I’ll ever fully understand. The MVS acquisition raised some eyebrows at the time, but it plugged a hole, he wasn’t guaranteed a spot, and here we are.
But as far as JS goes, he clearly has some things to prove on drafting and veteran acquisition. His recent record is mixed at best. If he turns last year’s 10-7 team into an 11-6 playoff team this year, does he get a feather in his cap?
Also important, none of the 2022 class is re-signed as we head into the season. 6 starters plus Dareke, but no clear “break-out” star players. So, I guess he has decided to let them all play for contracts - and potentially leave. It portends well for this season, but is risky for future seasons. His handling of these players, in my mind, is still the biggest decision ahead, maybe make-or-break for the team.
Some of you know I felt very early on (after the Horton draft pick) that MVS was potentially in danger of not making this team. A number of people have communicated to me that I was right and JS made a mistake paying for a free agent who didn’t play one snap for the Seahawks. I actually don’t think it was a mistake, and I don’t feel JS was wrong to sign him. (FYI, we are going to get back at least $1.25 million by virtue of the 49ers signing him) When MVS was signed, Lockett had been released and DK had been traded. We lost our 2 and 3 WR, and after JSN, Bobo was WR2. I love Bobo, but you don’t want to roll with Bobo as your number 2. We had higher priority draft needs and who knew we would get a steal when we finally got around to selecting a WR in the 5th round. Who knew Kupp was going to be released when MVS was signed? Who knew that Horton would fully recover from his knee injury in time for the season? MVS was a cheap place holder, but JS was not satisfied with MVS and kept trying to obtain a better WR2 or WR3 than MVS. It was clear to me that Horton looked real healthy at the first preseason practice, and Kupp also looked in full health. The performance of Horton was stellar and MVS was competing for WR4. He was a WR4 who played in 2 special teams snaps in the last two years. Bobo flashed as a solid WR4 who plays special teams. D Young stepped up his game as a division 2 WR and was always a stellar STer. Cody White stepped up his game as is also an excellent ST player. I don’t think JS made a mistake signing MVS, but he would have made a mistake being afraid of taking a dead cap hit and keeping MVS on the roster. I could easily be wrong about all this and we won’t have to wait long to find out. MVS will play for sure given the 49er WR room in week one at Lumen Field.
I won't be surprised if MM puts Horton on IR if only to be certain his knee is healed properly. Who knows? Maybe the kid was playing through some pain...
Re: Cody White, I actually think you got the process right around the WRs! you suggested that they might keep Sims for PR/KR, given we didn't have a whole lot of clarity who would play that role. I still don't know who will take that role on, but I heard that Cody White seemed like a good option? I didn't see him return punts/kicks, so idk, but maybe that's why his spot is secure? Serviceable WR + potential starting PR/KR?
I think everyone is too hung up on the $3 million. To get a vested veteran would cost something like $1.1 million anyway. Of all the substitutes suggested, I had literally heard of none of them beforehand, yet I watched MVS stretch the field many times. He was also known for his downfield blocking. You don't use your primary players on special teams if you have other options. What's the beef about? The intel he could pass onto the 49ers could be a problem, but mostly because we face them so soon. A few games into the season, the whole league will have the majority of that intel anyway. Should we have kept him until after the first game on the off chance that he might go to the 49ers when we needed spots for 27 offensive players? I think people are making things up just to be able to find something to criticize JS about.
I like the idea that Schneider isn’t afraid to sign someone and then isn’t afraid to let him go and take the grief that follows. He is not trying to save face but to make a winning football team.
Well, I suppose. But given there is so much information we DO NOT HAVE, isn't it inevitable? It is impressive being right, but logic only works with all the facts. And sadly, Mike MacDonald isn't very good at sharing those. I really do need to have a chat with him about that.
Very glad for Cody. I was reminded today that Adam Thielen never made the 53 on year 1. So there you go. Sometimes it takes more than one (or 6) tries at it.
MVS was an insurance policy, plain and simple. When he was signed, we had nobody else who could stretch the field. We were lucky that we have the WR3 candidates we got, and yet they mostly have no, and I repeat, no NFL experience. The MVS contract wasn't a bad contract at the time. People were saying so then. We had the money. I approve of JS's MVS signing. In fact, I hope we don't regret letting him go later. (The problem with keeping him was numbers. We have 27 offensive players as it is because we couldn't get a clear picture of who to keep and who to let go yet.)
Just saying again, you don't need to pay $3 million for an insurance policy wide receiver. How do I know that? Marquez Valdes-Scantling was a free agent on August 27th until he signed with the 49ers and he didn't cost half as much. Now he brings all his Seattle intel to Kyle Shanahan...which honestly I have no idea how important that is, but bigger point being Seattle paid $3 million for MVS to be a 49er.
I come here for many reasons, but the fact that you read your listeners posts, and engage them when there are differing opinions is right up there at the top of the list. It's rare these days. I tip my cap to you sir.
Seriously. MVS was signed specifically for speed and not much else. JS was worried that it could be tough to find a speedster and blinked, paying too much. But another year has passed, our DBs are younger and faster, and then JS pulls an Ace in the draft.
I can’t fault paying for insurance, but I can fault overpaying for such a narrow skill set, especially when that skill is the one lost to age. Put Riq on him in practice, and he’ll look even slower than he really is.
The weird thing is that JS paid so much. Some other teams at the table were good bluffers.
Even if another teams signs MVS and softens the financial blow of releasing him, it doesn't really change anything about the poor contract decision. Looking at the other three guys, I think Darnold will be fine. His contract is only bad if he's immediately terrible and needs to be replaced in year one, which seems unlikely. Demarcus Lawrence's age is a concern, but his contract seems fair. I don't think he'll exceed his value, but he's unlikely to flop hard. Cooper Kupp is the one that scares me. I really like him, but it's hard to imagine a future where we're not paying him to not play football for us. He will need to be an outlier to meet his contract value, and betting on outliers rarely works out. I fear that Kupp is too much risk for too little reward.
I have zero hopes of Kupp lasting 17 (+?) games. I do have hope that he can help us win week 1 vs the 9ers and be a good mentor and influence on our younger guys. $25.5M guaranteed shocked me at the time and I don't expect him to be on our squad whenever his salary becomes guaranteed for '26. But if he is, it will mean he played well and a lot.
Yeah, that's all I'm saying. Between being a good contract or a bad one, MVS was a bad one. The only thing anyone could really disagree with me on is if MVS is easily replaceable or not and given how many fans wanted him cut from the first day of camp, it seems like most people see him as replaceable.
As far as the other deals, anybody's contract can seem good or bad in theory. Realistically free agency often goes completely opposite of expectations, which is why I think the Seahawks stayed out of it so often under Pete Carroll. These are riskier moves than he tended to make. It doesn't mean that they're worse moves, they're just different. I honestly don't think it will take that long to judge them either. Maybe 1-2 months into the season. But I'll wait until then.
Yeah I noticed I didn't get the customary SSJ "Like" on my MVS post, but I also didn't get my head bitten off like happens on some other sites...
I guess when you've lived through a Max Unger trade, or a Percy Harvin signing, or a Jamal Adams trade (and extension), or a midseason bailing on the entire starting LB crew and their $11m, the MVS $2-$3m just doesn't really feel like all that much. Perhaps we've just grown numb?
My gun is loaded too on the 2025 draft, think we killed it! And 20 of our 27 offensive players and 15 of our 23 defensive players, and 2 of our 3 ST players, are our draft picks or UDFA's (although a few have had to come back home). So 37 of 53 are our own picks/UDFA's. Feels pretty strong to me but maybe it's not, maybe that's typical of most teams? Would be an interesting analysis esp if it turns out we're on the winning side of the ledger, meaning our 37 are better than their 37 so to speak....
I'll say it right now...and people are gonna say I'm crazy, but I think O'Toole is better than Mafe. I could see a scenario where O'Toole usurps the role eventually.
No doubt. EDGE doesn't eactly have a middle class when it comes to contracts. It's probably the next worst to QB in the sense that a solid starter is expected to have a near record setting deal.
Seahawks claimed:
- CB Derion Kendrick from Rams
Seahawks players who were claimed:
- None
I'm thinking a couple of the guys who surpised us by making the 53 only made it as placeholders so we could cut them when signing players directly to our active roster. The guys we really wanted to keep, like Pili and Bohanna we put on our practice squad to allow us to hang onto them while giving these new guys a look-see, since we have to sign them to the active.
I vaguely remember him from Clemson. He was a high school star QB, switched to recevier, and then to CB. I wonder whether he will stick?
He was pretty terrible on the Rams. Whenever a team got into the red zone it was "throw it at Kendrick" time.
Yeah I heard someone else mention that too. I like our depth players (Josh Jobe, Nehemiah Pritchett, Shaquill Griffin) and would prefer that bunch over Kendrick...wonder what they saw.
Maybe we can try him at a whole new position!
QB, WR and CB? Guess he needs to move to gunner on special teams. I mean, why not, hes tried everything else.
Long snapper!
Let me try out a theory here, and I won't be hurt if it gets shouted down (or gently pushed aside).
This is a REALLY young team. JS knew how many draft choices he was going to have, and got more. And he knows how many contracts he's got to negotiate this season, or after this season. Either way, it's still a really young team. 20% rookie.
I suspect the free agent signing this year were as much about selecting players with specific qualities they would bring to the culture as it was about money or skill. Lawrence and Kupp are both guys with a reputation for being fit and staying fit, and that's part of why they're still in the league. Clearly McD values that. I mean, every team does, but McD seems to place a premium on it. They're also mentors and leaders and guys who know how to prepare. (MVS is a somewhat different story, but we've talked that into dust.) They're culture-setters, they show the young guys what it takes to stay in the league. That may also be why you keep Cody White on the 53.
I do think there's a certain kind of attitude MM wants the team to have, and DK didn't have it, and maybe Geno didn't have it, and maybe that's part of why they're not on the team.
Not sure I said what I meant to but that's enough words for now.
Other than here, I don't see/hear other articles or podcasters taking issue much with John Schneider's decision making. It's a gamble which a gambler is likely to lose if the whole truth ever came out. But SSJ rolled those dice and I admire gutsy bets. It's news that needed telling. If anything, it points at an organization in disarray and it sure as hell was. MacDonald was recently interviewed saying Kubiak had asked them if any changes were in the works before he commited to coming here and MM told him "Nothing big". A few days later, all hell broke loose. So yeah, the Ship needed righting, just like SSJ needed writing. All that matters is these guys have built one tough troop of Seahawk athletes and SSJ is pumping out one helluvan unmatched Daily, warts and all.
Is there a reason we signed a player from both San Francisco and LA? I can't help but believe that MVS was enticing to the Niners because of his position and knowledge gained during time with the Seahawks and Kubiak. Did we sign the players from the NFC West teams to get intel in addition to a player in a position of need from a depth standpoint?
I always wonder that. I would assume most teams have tape, but there has to be deviations that teams haven't used yet that a former player can discuss so his team can plan for it. But that's a lot of work on potential intel that may not be anything.
A key point of this post - that JS has not proven that he can acquire top veteran contributors for this team - I completely agree. The Big 3 will change the story, one way or another. MVS, whatever, I don’t care about the $3M, it’s a rounding error for Jodi and we have $30M of cap space. The sausage-making aspect of roster construction isn’t something I’ll ever fully understand. The MVS acquisition raised some eyebrows at the time, but it plugged a hole, he wasn’t guaranteed a spot, and here we are.
But as far as JS goes, he clearly has some things to prove on drafting and veteran acquisition. His recent record is mixed at best. If he turns last year’s 10-7 team into an 11-6 playoff team this year, does he get a feather in his cap?
Also important, none of the 2022 class is re-signed as we head into the season. 6 starters plus Dareke, but no clear “break-out” star players. So, I guess he has decided to let them all play for contracts - and potentially leave. It portends well for this season, but is risky for future seasons. His handling of these players, in my mind, is still the biggest decision ahead, maybe make-or-break for the team.
Some of you know I felt very early on (after the Horton draft pick) that MVS was potentially in danger of not making this team. A number of people have communicated to me that I was right and JS made a mistake paying for a free agent who didn’t play one snap for the Seahawks. I actually don’t think it was a mistake, and I don’t feel JS was wrong to sign him. (FYI, we are going to get back at least $1.25 million by virtue of the 49ers signing him) When MVS was signed, Lockett had been released and DK had been traded. We lost our 2 and 3 WR, and after JSN, Bobo was WR2. I love Bobo, but you don’t want to roll with Bobo as your number 2. We had higher priority draft needs and who knew we would get a steal when we finally got around to selecting a WR in the 5th round. Who knew Kupp was going to be released when MVS was signed? Who knew that Horton would fully recover from his knee injury in time for the season? MVS was a cheap place holder, but JS was not satisfied with MVS and kept trying to obtain a better WR2 or WR3 than MVS. It was clear to me that Horton looked real healthy at the first preseason practice, and Kupp also looked in full health. The performance of Horton was stellar and MVS was competing for WR4. He was a WR4 who played in 2 special teams snaps in the last two years. Bobo flashed as a solid WR4 who plays special teams. D Young stepped up his game as a division 2 WR and was always a stellar STer. Cody White stepped up his game as is also an excellent ST player. I don’t think JS made a mistake signing MVS, but he would have made a mistake being afraid of taking a dead cap hit and keeping MVS on the roster. I could easily be wrong about all this and we won’t have to wait long to find out. MVS will play for sure given the 49er WR room in week one at Lumen Field.
I won't be surprised if MM puts Horton on IR if only to be certain his knee is healed properly. Who knows? Maybe the kid was playing through some pain...
Re: Cody White, I actually think you got the process right around the WRs! you suggested that they might keep Sims for PR/KR, given we didn't have a whole lot of clarity who would play that role. I still don't know who will take that role on, but I heard that Cody White seemed like a good option? I didn't see him return punts/kicks, so idk, but maybe that's why his spot is secure? Serviceable WR + potential starting PR/KR?
I think everyone is too hung up on the $3 million. To get a vested veteran would cost something like $1.1 million anyway. Of all the substitutes suggested, I had literally heard of none of them beforehand, yet I watched MVS stretch the field many times. He was also known for his downfield blocking. You don't use your primary players on special teams if you have other options. What's the beef about? The intel he could pass onto the 49ers could be a problem, but mostly because we face them so soon. A few games into the season, the whole league will have the majority of that intel anyway. Should we have kept him until after the first game on the off chance that he might go to the 49ers when we needed spots for 27 offensive players? I think people are making things up just to be able to find something to criticize JS about.
I like the idea that Schneider isn’t afraid to sign someone and then isn’t afraid to let him go and take the grief that follows. He is not trying to save face but to make a winning football team.
"Being wrong absolutely sucks"
Well, I suppose. But given there is so much information we DO NOT HAVE, isn't it inevitable? It is impressive being right, but logic only works with all the facts. And sadly, Mike MacDonald isn't very good at sharing those. I really do need to have a chat with him about that.
Very glad for Cody. I was reminded today that Adam Thielen never made the 53 on year 1. So there you go. Sometimes it takes more than one (or 6) tries at it.
MVS was an insurance policy, plain and simple. When he was signed, we had nobody else who could stretch the field. We were lucky that we have the WR3 candidates we got, and yet they mostly have no, and I repeat, no NFL experience. The MVS contract wasn't a bad contract at the time. People were saying so then. We had the money. I approve of JS's MVS signing. In fact, I hope we don't regret letting him go later. (The problem with keeping him was numbers. We have 27 offensive players as it is because we couldn't get a clear picture of who to keep and who to let go yet.)
Just saying again, you don't need to pay $3 million for an insurance policy wide receiver. How do I know that? Marquez Valdes-Scantling was a free agent on August 27th until he signed with the 49ers and he didn't cost half as much. Now he brings all his Seattle intel to Kyle Shanahan...which honestly I have no idea how important that is, but bigger point being Seattle paid $3 million for MVS to be a 49er.
I accidentally replied to you in a new comment rather than a reply. Sorry.
I come here for many reasons, but the fact that you read your listeners posts, and engage them when there are differing opinions is right up there at the top of the list. It's rare these days. I tip my cap to you sir.
I haven't been able to do it as often as I'd like to, but comments like this are good for me to remember that I should make more of an effort. Thanks!
Did Riq ruin the MVS signing.
MVS: “I’m fast!”
Riq: “Hold my Gatorade.”
Seriously. MVS was signed specifically for speed and not much else. JS was worried that it could be tough to find a speedster and blinked, paying too much. But another year has passed, our DBs are younger and faster, and then JS pulls an Ace in the draft.
I can’t fault paying for insurance, but I can fault overpaying for such a narrow skill set, especially when that skill is the one lost to age. Put Riq on him in practice, and he’ll look even slower than he really is.
The weird thing is that JS paid so much. Some other teams at the table were good bluffers.
There was a player on the free agent market today exaclty like Marquez Valdes-Scantling:
Marquez Valdes-Scantling.
My only point is don't pay $3 million for a receiver who is that expendable because MVS grows on trees.
Wild. Those dudes could be twins. 👍
49ers sign MVS.
And the Seahawks will be paying him more than the 49ers do.
Excellent. Other teams picking up players not good enough to make ours. That's what we want.
I give it 4 games before MVS is a free agent again.
Unfortunately he plays us in week 1.
I might say fortunately. He truly has the hands of a digital watch.
HA! I get it, Chuck!
Of course <sigh>
Even if another teams signs MVS and softens the financial blow of releasing him, it doesn't really change anything about the poor contract decision. Looking at the other three guys, I think Darnold will be fine. His contract is only bad if he's immediately terrible and needs to be replaced in year one, which seems unlikely. Demarcus Lawrence's age is a concern, but his contract seems fair. I don't think he'll exceed his value, but he's unlikely to flop hard. Cooper Kupp is the one that scares me. I really like him, but it's hard to imagine a future where we're not paying him to not play football for us. He will need to be an outlier to meet his contract value, and betting on outliers rarely works out. I fear that Kupp is too much risk for too little reward.
I have zero hopes of Kupp lasting 17 (+?) games. I do have hope that he can help us win week 1 vs the 9ers and be a good mentor and influence on our younger guys. $25.5M guaranteed shocked me at the time and I don't expect him to be on our squad whenever his salary becomes guaranteed for '26. But if he is, it will mean he played well and a lot.
Yeah, that's all I'm saying. Between being a good contract or a bad one, MVS was a bad one. The only thing anyone could really disagree with me on is if MVS is easily replaceable or not and given how many fans wanted him cut from the first day of camp, it seems like most people see him as replaceable.
As far as the other deals, anybody's contract can seem good or bad in theory. Realistically free agency often goes completely opposite of expectations, which is why I think the Seahawks stayed out of it so often under Pete Carroll. These are riskier moves than he tended to make. It doesn't mean that they're worse moves, they're just different. I honestly don't think it will take that long to judge them either. Maybe 1-2 months into the season. But I'll wait until then.
Yeah I noticed I didn't get the customary SSJ "Like" on my MVS post, but I also didn't get my head bitten off like happens on some other sites...
I guess when you've lived through a Max Unger trade, or a Percy Harvin signing, or a Jamal Adams trade (and extension), or a midseason bailing on the entire starting LB crew and their $11m, the MVS $2-$3m just doesn't really feel like all that much. Perhaps we've just grown numb?
My gun is loaded too on the 2025 draft, think we killed it! And 20 of our 27 offensive players and 15 of our 23 defensive players, and 2 of our 3 ST players, are our draft picks or UDFA's (although a few have had to come back home). So 37 of 53 are our own picks/UDFA's. Feels pretty strong to me but maybe it's not, maybe that's typical of most teams? Would be an interesting analysis esp if it turns out we're on the winning side of the ledger, meaning our 37 are better than their 37 so to speak....
I would not over think when you get a customary Like.
Fair enough
I'll say it right now...and people are gonna say I'm crazy, but I think O'Toole is better than Mafe. I could see a scenario where O'Toole usurps the role eventually.
You're crazy!
I think JS would love to find a reason (or two reasons named O'Toole and Ivey) to not give Mafe a big second contract.
No doubt. EDGE doesn't eactly have a middle class when it comes to contracts. It's probably the next worst to QB in the sense that a solid starter is expected to have a near record setting deal.