I’d love a Mahomes or Allen, but only on their rookie deals. The idea of a franchise QB is great, but not if you’re paying said QB at market value.
In the last 12 SBs, only 3 of those 24 teams have been piloted by a QB with a top 5 cap hit. There’s a much higher rate of mediocre QBs winning than your highly-paid marquee guys.
Now, if you can get a franchise guy to take a below market deal for 20 years like Brady, then great. I would’ve been happy to keep Russ if his cap hit was $20M. At $45M? Hell no.
It seems to me that you basically have to get everything else right to build a complete team around a QB taking up that much of your cap space. It’s a bad bet. The numbers back that up.
Not that I disagree with your points because I've also been saying that since the QB contracts starting skyrocketing about 10 years ago. Definitely the evidence is there. But please don't forget about this one part about watching football: Being entertained! Most teams are not going to win the Super Bowl. By my count, about 31 of 32 teams are not going to win the Super Bowl. Would you rather watch a team that had Allen for the next 10 years or a team that kept rotating through Carson Wentz, Matt Ryan, Jacoby Brissett, etc.? It's not like the Chiefs can't win the Super Bowl this season. In fact, many people are picking them and will give Mahomes better odds to win a Super Bowl in the next 10 years than just about any other team.
You gotta like watching football. Just wait until you see the 2022 Seahawks and then tell me if you wouldn't rather have Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes, even if they don't win the Super Bowl.
I so agree with your comment. When fans get spoiled enough to say "Superbowl or bust", it ruins the experience of being a fan. One has to cultivate a level of interest that allows for one to focus on subtleties. My sense is this community is pretty mature and thoughtful so I'm sure most agree that this season can be interesting and enjoyable even if the team wins very few games. There's so much to notice, to think and talk about, and for me there's so much to learn. Having never played the game, much of it remains shrouded in mystery.
Full agreement - rookie deal superstars is what it takes these days.At the current pricing, it is absolutely necessary to draft or develop a starting-worthy QB and WR on offense and a couple game wrecking defenders (interior DL, edge and CB) EVERY four years.
Your analysis seems right. In Denver's case, they don't have an elite roster and yet they've still signed on to pay Wilson almost $50M per year. For a guy losing his mobility. Hard to imagine this trade going well for them out past the first year or two. Unless their fans are content to merely make the playoffs and hope against hope to get hot and go deep.
Russ is still on par with Matt Stafford but as you noted, the rest of that Bronco team is not on par with the rest of the Lombardi trophy winners. The Ram's blow them away both with offensive explosiveness and via their defensive superstars.
Russ will give them 3 more wins max - in 2022 and can do better beyond that but I have faith in our 2023 drafted QB on their rookie contract. The Hawks hoist the Championship banner for 2024!
Good points...but, John Schneider's last 3 known QB I nterests are RW, Patrick Mmahomes and Josh Allen. Dude has a decent eye plus it is worthy to point out that Russell wasn't anywhere near a star yet when he was hoisting the Lombardi trophy.
Last bit for faith...the quality of the 2023 QB crop is like at least 5-7 are grading out better than any of 2022's QBs...
Either way, it will take a Team. With explosiveness, the ability to extend drives and eat click plus limit opponent scoring as well as a winning turnover margin...do those things and a marginal QB effort is enough :)
It should be noted though that only the visit or interest in those two QBs are public. JS may have been interested in many more QBs that didn't pan out and thus, aren't mentioned. Interest in those two QBs sound much "sexier". It did mention in the article that he wanted to make sure lock was part of the trade, when to me, at the time it was the most expendable part. Lock certainly could still be something, but as we've seen, physical gifts doesn't always guarantee great play. Maybe JS just loves physical gifts. You could be right, but also, I think we need to be careful with what we hear vs what the reality could be!
The news that Russ' agent was miffed over the other known QB interest is where I was coming from. If there was interest in others, I suspect Wilson's camp would have voiced an opinion then too.
Clearly JS likes physical gifts but not enough to go for Malik as we passed on him until he was finally picked in the 3rd round.
2023 does indeed appear to be a far deeper year for QB talent coming out of college. That said, we don't know which ones will be good. People talk about Allen and Mahomes but we don't know if they would have developed here. Also, the last known QB in which he's shown interest is Drew Lock. Purportedly, Lock was an essential part of the Wilson trade and one of the primary reasons Seattle was speaking with Denver. Perhaps Lock will still turn out to be good at some point. I hope so. But he's a perfect example thus far of how raw talent and potential does not an NFL star make.
A great team can be a contender with a decent QB, like the 49ers with Jimmy G or the Rams with Goff, or the Steelers with Old Big Ben. A bad team is not saved by a great QB, as the Stafford-era Lions or the 2017 Seahawks show us.
The Saints with post-LASIK Winston are scary. If he's healthy, they are my favorites to win the NFC,
Well, look, I like Matthew Stafford more than most people do. But I also don't think that I would ever in a million years compare him to Patrick Mahomes.
To answer your question I would take the Seahawks by 7 if Russ was our quarterback against the Teddy, or Drew Broncos. I didn't want to see Russell get traded, but after it happened I have been fully on-board with the deal. There were no real options available to rebuild the team. True Russell didn't look quite as good last year, but I don't think he has passed his best by due date. We only need to look at the last 5 or 6 games from last year. Russell brought the Hawks from behind to many times in the 4th quarter to think he is already on the slippery slope to mediocre play. John and Pete made the right move. I already feel good about the 2022 draft class. Step 2 is finding a young stud QB. This is a lot easier said than done, but I think John Schneider will get the job done. Knowing that he was trying to swing a deal to get Josh Allen is the proof I need.
Can someone tell me did Marquise Goodwin get cut and brought back ? Was he never cut, or is he cut. I can't seem to get the answer because I have seen his name twice as being on the team, and those articaks were from yesterday and today. It would make us a better team. Five wide formations would be killer and maybe the fastest in the league. Please help. Thanks
Josh Allen in his rookie season was not the Josh Allen everyone is thrilled with today and I have considerable doubt that this franchise would have made the right decisions with the right people to fix a QB with considerable problems in his rookie season. Tater isn't fixing Josh Allen, and while I don't know much about Dave Canales as a QB coach I do know he didn't actually play the position in his football career, so I don't have a lot of reason to believe Pete Carroll is investing any more serious effort to develop his QB(s) in 2022 than he did in 2012.
It would have been fun to see Mahomes throw to Baldwin and Lockett but Mahomes would not have sat for a year in Seattle, he would not have had an offensive-minded HC who tailored an entire offense around him nor would have benefitted from a HC so hell-bent on unlocking his potential that his entire staff was scouring both CFB and high school football program for innovative play designs. That's not Pete Carroll, but it would be fun to see the alternate timeline where Mahomes was Seattle's QB and compare that version of him with the one we've got (I'm 99% sure the one we got is the preferred reality).
I PRAY the Seahawks find a future QB who can play within Carroll's system and not some developmental project QB because let's face it: The Seahawks getting a QB who was basically ready for prime time in 2012 was a miracle and it's going to be incredibly hard to replicate that level of luck twice.
I don't think that bad of Pete or our coaching staff. We were the second only to the Patriots in wins over the last decade. That was not a fluke, it was competence (with lots of draft luck).
But yeah, the coaching staff is far from stellar. I, for one, wished Schottenheimer would come back as a QB coach.
Let’s see what happens this year. Rick Meier was Seattle’s number 2 overall pick in the draft in 1993 or thereabouts. Who? Exactly! Spending the season waiting for the savior to be picked in next years draft isn’t any guarantee you won’t wind up breathlessly waiting for 2024 class of QBs.
The Broncos and Seahawks seem to be at the same place in terms of roster construction. Both have all the important pieces in place. Yet one decided to trade Wilson away and the other went after him. Fascinating to see where this will go.
After reading Brady's article the thing that really jumped out at me that nobody seems to be talking about is that Schneider chose to do a deal with Denver over other suitors because he could get Lock in return. The consensus is that Lock was just a throw in but if he's the actual reason why Denver was chosen then doesn't it seem like Lock might be in the Hawk's long term plans?
I think it says that the team wants you to believe that they are very high on Drew Lock. I don't think that he's as high on Lock as he was on Mahomes and Allen or obviously even close to it.
I'm not sure this isn't just the team protecting their butts. Russ chose the location, not John, that is the most important thing. Saying "we wanted Denver so we could get Drew" to me reads as the team saying what their supposed to about a guy they just traded for. They needed another QB, and I could easily imagine them liking Lock. But that's not why Denver was the choice.
Seahawks fans seem to wildly overestimate Seattle's chances against Denver on Monday. Not so much here, as SJ readers seem more sophisticated than most, but on websites like fieldgulls, look out.
We know that in sports one can never say never but I'll be shocked if Seattle doesn't get blown out on Monday. The key is gonna be keeping it close. If Wilson comes in here and scores a couple of quick touchdowns, I don't see a realistic option for Geno to bring our guys back. If it somehow stays close, then who knows. If only our defense were stout enough to keep things close.
At the end of the day, I expect the Seahawks to lose and for it not to be that close in the fourth quarter. But it's football and it's Monday night and it's Russ vs Pete....the outcome could be anything, even a Seahawks win, but I'll be shocked if that carries over week after week.
Unwritten is that Wilson wanted out. So, considering that, the Hawks FO fleeced the Broncos in that trade. That's just my opinion and we will only know who is right for two or three years, but I am sure it was foisted upon us, and never forget we went 7-10 last year. I had lost hope we would get to a SB again with Wilson. He hadn't won a game in the 4th Qtr. for a long time, either.
Build focus grow , If we win 10-12 games ,Build focus grow then draft W R and quarterback and an edge then keep living the dream …We got this …Happy Hawks fan .
Wilson's Seahawks vs Geno's Broncos? That's very easy: Wilson's Seahawks. Why? By DVOA, Wilson's Seahawks were a 9.6 expected win team last year, and Wilson was broken much of the year. Geno did a quarter of the quarterbacking himself. Bridgewater's Broncos were a 7.8 expected win team, and I imagine Geno and Bridgewater are interchangeable. Add in home field advantage and it's an easy choice.
I’d love a Mahomes or Allen, but only on their rookie deals. The idea of a franchise QB is great, but not if you’re paying said QB at market value.
In the last 12 SBs, only 3 of those 24 teams have been piloted by a QB with a top 5 cap hit. There’s a much higher rate of mediocre QBs winning than your highly-paid marquee guys.
Now, if you can get a franchise guy to take a below market deal for 20 years like Brady, then great. I would’ve been happy to keep Russ if his cap hit was $20M. At $45M? Hell no.
It seems to me that you basically have to get everything else right to build a complete team around a QB taking up that much of your cap space. It’s a bad bet. The numbers back that up.
Not that I disagree with your points because I've also been saying that since the QB contracts starting skyrocketing about 10 years ago. Definitely the evidence is there. But please don't forget about this one part about watching football: Being entertained! Most teams are not going to win the Super Bowl. By my count, about 31 of 32 teams are not going to win the Super Bowl. Would you rather watch a team that had Allen for the next 10 years or a team that kept rotating through Carson Wentz, Matt Ryan, Jacoby Brissett, etc.? It's not like the Chiefs can't win the Super Bowl this season. In fact, many people are picking them and will give Mahomes better odds to win a Super Bowl in the next 10 years than just about any other team.
You gotta like watching football. Just wait until you see the 2022 Seahawks and then tell me if you wouldn't rather have Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes, even if they don't win the Super Bowl.
I so agree with your comment. When fans get spoiled enough to say "Superbowl or bust", it ruins the experience of being a fan. One has to cultivate a level of interest that allows for one to focus on subtleties. My sense is this community is pretty mature and thoughtful so I'm sure most agree that this season can be interesting and enjoyable even if the team wins very few games. There's so much to notice, to think and talk about, and for me there's so much to learn. Having never played the game, much of it remains shrouded in mystery.
Full agreement - rookie deal superstars is what it takes these days.At the current pricing, it is absolutely necessary to draft or develop a starting-worthy QB and WR on offense and a couple game wrecking defenders (interior DL, edge and CB) EVERY four years.
Your analysis seems right. In Denver's case, they don't have an elite roster and yet they've still signed on to pay Wilson almost $50M per year. For a guy losing his mobility. Hard to imagine this trade going well for them out past the first year or two. Unless their fans are content to merely make the playoffs and hope against hope to get hot and go deep.
Russ is still on par with Matt Stafford but as you noted, the rest of that Bronco team is not on par with the rest of the Lombardi trophy winners. The Ram's blow them away both with offensive explosiveness and via their defensive superstars.
Russ will give them 3 more wins max - in 2022 and can do better beyond that but I have faith in our 2023 drafted QB on their rookie contract. The Hawks hoist the Championship banner for 2024!
I think it's a long shot. How many rookie QBs, even highly ranked ones, pan out? How many become good while still on the rookie deal?
Good points...but, John Schneider's last 3 known QB I nterests are RW, Patrick Mmahomes and Josh Allen. Dude has a decent eye plus it is worthy to point out that Russell wasn't anywhere near a star yet when he was hoisting the Lombardi trophy.
Last bit for faith...the quality of the 2023 QB crop is like at least 5-7 are grading out better than any of 2022's QBs...
Either way, it will take a Team. With explosiveness, the ability to extend drives and eat click plus limit opponent scoring as well as a winning turnover margin...do those things and a marginal QB effort is enough :)
It should be noted though that only the visit or interest in those two QBs are public. JS may have been interested in many more QBs that didn't pan out and thus, aren't mentioned. Interest in those two QBs sound much "sexier". It did mention in the article that he wanted to make sure lock was part of the trade, when to me, at the time it was the most expendable part. Lock certainly could still be something, but as we've seen, physical gifts doesn't always guarantee great play. Maybe JS just loves physical gifts. You could be right, but also, I think we need to be careful with what we hear vs what the reality could be!
The news that Russ' agent was miffed over the other known QB interest is where I was coming from. If there was interest in others, I suspect Wilson's camp would have voiced an opinion then too.
Clearly JS likes physical gifts but not enough to go for Malik as we passed on him until he was finally picked in the 3rd round.
2023 does indeed appear to be a far deeper year for QB talent coming out of college. That said, we don't know which ones will be good. People talk about Allen and Mahomes but we don't know if they would have developed here. Also, the last known QB in which he's shown interest is Drew Lock. Purportedly, Lock was an essential part of the Wilson trade and one of the primary reasons Seattle was speaking with Denver. Perhaps Lock will still turn out to be good at some point. I hope so. But he's a perfect example thus far of how raw talent and potential does not an NFL star make.
Good point! Hopefully we get the next pick right! Certainly extremely difficult but if JS has an eye for it, this rebuild will be way shorter
A great team can be a contender with a decent QB, like the 49ers with Jimmy G or the Rams with Goff, or the Steelers with Old Big Ben. A bad team is not saved by a great QB, as the Stafford-era Lions or the 2017 Seahawks show us.
The Saints with post-LASIK Winston are scary. If he's healthy, they are my favorites to win the NFC,
Well, look, I like Matthew Stafford more than most people do. But I also don't think that I would ever in a million years compare him to Patrick Mahomes.
To answer your question I would take the Seahawks by 7 if Russ was our quarterback against the Teddy, or Drew Broncos. I didn't want to see Russell get traded, but after it happened I have been fully on-board with the deal. There were no real options available to rebuild the team. True Russell didn't look quite as good last year, but I don't think he has passed his best by due date. We only need to look at the last 5 or 6 games from last year. Russell brought the Hawks from behind to many times in the 4th quarter to think he is already on the slippery slope to mediocre play. John and Pete made the right move. I already feel good about the 2022 draft class. Step 2 is finding a young stud QB. This is a lot easier said than done, but I think John Schneider will get the job done. Knowing that he was trying to swing a deal to get Josh Allen is the proof I need.
Can someone tell me did Marquise Goodwin get cut and brought back ? Was he never cut, or is he cut. I can't seem to get the answer because I have seen his name twice as being on the team, and those articaks were from yesterday and today. It would make us a better team. Five wide formations would be killer and maybe the fastest in the league. Please help. Thanks
Josh Allen in his rookie season was not the Josh Allen everyone is thrilled with today and I have considerable doubt that this franchise would have made the right decisions with the right people to fix a QB with considerable problems in his rookie season. Tater isn't fixing Josh Allen, and while I don't know much about Dave Canales as a QB coach I do know he didn't actually play the position in his football career, so I don't have a lot of reason to believe Pete Carroll is investing any more serious effort to develop his QB(s) in 2022 than he did in 2012.
It would have been fun to see Mahomes throw to Baldwin and Lockett but Mahomes would not have sat for a year in Seattle, he would not have had an offensive-minded HC who tailored an entire offense around him nor would have benefitted from a HC so hell-bent on unlocking his potential that his entire staff was scouring both CFB and high school football program for innovative play designs. That's not Pete Carroll, but it would be fun to see the alternate timeline where Mahomes was Seattle's QB and compare that version of him with the one we've got (I'm 99% sure the one we got is the preferred reality).
I PRAY the Seahawks find a future QB who can play within Carroll's system and not some developmental project QB because let's face it: The Seahawks getting a QB who was basically ready for prime time in 2012 was a miracle and it's going to be incredibly hard to replicate that level of luck twice.
I don't think that bad of Pete or our coaching staff. We were the second only to the Patriots in wins over the last decade. That was not a fluke, it was competence (with lots of draft luck).
But yeah, the coaching staff is far from stellar. I, for one, wished Schottenheimer would come back as a QB coach.
Let’s see what happens this year. Rick Meier was Seattle’s number 2 overall pick in the draft in 1993 or thereabouts. Who? Exactly! Spending the season waiting for the savior to be picked in next years draft isn’t any guarantee you won’t wind up breathlessly waiting for 2024 class of QBs.
This is a great point. There's this drive a 22yr old coming in is the answer.
I'd actually take a 31 year old for 3 or 4 years. Going this route may not be wrong.
But I'm NOT a Geno fan
I think most Seahawks fans know who Rick Mirer is.
Loudest cheer I ever heard for Mirer was when someone stepped on his hand on a pick 6 return.
Holding his hand going off the field, the cheers were deafening.
It was a mix between football savvy fan and Philly fan...lol
The Broncos and Seahawks seem to be at the same place in terms of roster construction. Both have all the important pieces in place. Yet one decided to trade Wilson away and the other went after him. Fascinating to see where this will go.
After reading Brady's article the thing that really jumped out at me that nobody seems to be talking about is that Schneider chose to do a deal with Denver over other suitors because he could get Lock in return. The consensus is that Lock was just a throw in but if he's the actual reason why Denver was chosen then doesn't it seem like Lock might be in the Hawk's long term plans?
I will be amazed if Geno is the QB all season.
I think it says that the team wants you to believe that they are very high on Drew Lock. I don't think that he's as high on Lock as he was on Mahomes and Allen or obviously even close to it.
Or it could be that they are actually high on Lock. We'll have to wait and see.
Lock may not be ready. Maybe they believed he could be joshallenized in the proper environment. Maybe he still can. Time will tell.
I'm not sure this isn't just the team protecting their butts. Russ chose the location, not John, that is the most important thing. Saying "we wanted Denver so we could get Drew" to me reads as the team saying what their supposed to about a guy they just traded for. They needed another QB, and I could easily imagine them liking Lock. But that's not why Denver was the choice.
Seahawks fans seem to wildly overestimate Seattle's chances against Denver on Monday. Not so much here, as SJ readers seem more sophisticated than most, but on websites like fieldgulls, look out.
We know that in sports one can never say never but I'll be shocked if Seattle doesn't get blown out on Monday. The key is gonna be keeping it close. If Wilson comes in here and scores a couple of quick touchdowns, I don't see a realistic option for Geno to bring our guys back. If it somehow stays close, then who knows. If only our defense were stout enough to keep things close.
I'm hopeful just because it's week 1 — when everything may happen — and Russ is new to Denver.
At the end of the day, I expect the Seahawks to lose and for it not to be that close in the fourth quarter. But it's football and it's Monday night and it's Russ vs Pete....the outcome could be anything, even a Seahawks win, but I'll be shocked if that carries over week after week.
Unwritten is that Wilson wanted out. So, considering that, the Hawks FO fleeced the Broncos in that trade. That's just my opinion and we will only know who is right for two or three years, but I am sure it was foisted upon us, and never forget we went 7-10 last year. I had lost hope we would get to a SB again with Wilson. He hadn't won a game in the 4th Qtr. for a long time, either.
It actually was written...in the Brady Henderson article SJ references in this post.
Build focus grow , If we win 10-12 games ,Build focus grow then draft W R and quarterback and an edge then keep living the dream …We got this …Happy Hawks fan .
As I've always said, it is better to go 9-8 during a rebuild than 3-14. 100%.
Wilson's Seahawks vs Geno's Broncos? That's very easy: Wilson's Seahawks. Why? By DVOA, Wilson's Seahawks were a 9.6 expected win team last year, and Wilson was broken much of the year. Geno did a quarter of the quarterbacking himself. Bridgewater's Broncos were a 7.8 expected win team, and I imagine Geno and Bridgewater are interchangeable. Add in home field advantage and it's an easy choice.
No need for DVOA, it is quite obvious by every measure of football that Wilson's Seahawks are better than Geno's Broncos, that's what I'm saying!
not sure I follow!
For sure! Just saying I hope it’s obvious that’s the point I was trying to get across.