Why are the Seahawks as bad on defense today as they have been in the past four seasons? When is it supposed to get better? Seaside Joe 1710
SJ what I feel is missing is TOP for the defense. Clearly when the offense cannot play more than 3-4 plays before the defense is back out there has to have an impact, especially in a hybrid 3-4 without a normal NT. Case in point was a “normal” run play up the middle by Mitchell. JReed was on him. Dude is 100 pounds heavier. Mitchell was able to get away. Look at first qtr. the Ravens didn’t do that. Second half I am sure JReed etc were gassed big time. We have seen JReed be dominant on the line. In games where the offense of playing well almost all 4 quarters. How about research of TOP and it’s impact to the defense?
Introducing 2 new guys(Clark&Williams) to room almost always has an affect mostly negative on team performance . Couple people pushed out of jobs, different dynamic, tendency to evaluate new guys as game is on. Will look a lot different when schedule toughens. Positive about last weekend is a shared experience. Hope everyone not happy and working hard at dialling it in. The group is and will be much better. Only one way to get another shot at Ravens this year.
Hmmmm. I must admit, I'm not a fan of selecting this data point, and that data point, and implying something in the form of a question from it. FWIW, I don't know who you think is giving the Seahawks 'a pass'. I'm certainly not. This team has enough good players to be competitive in every game, and they have enough developing talent to be competitive next year and the year after. That's not a pass.
Is this questioning Pete? I think you have to ignore an awful lot of data points to imply he's not a successful coach. This whole up and down on Pete is coming in shorter cycles every year. Last year he was a genius early in the season, and a problem later in the season. This year it's seems almost after every good game Pete is getting a lot out of his guys, and every bad game Pete isn't getting enough out of his guys. Maybe Pete's the problem?
Pete actually has a track record to point at. You know who doesn't? Our two coordinators. At least not as coordinators. There is no evidence that I can find that says either one of them is maximizing the talent they have on the field......and they both have a considerable amount IMHO. But if you look at the numbers they are both average to below average, and that might be generous. If Pete has a weakness it is his patience. With players and coaches. If our defense ends up average to below average this year, and so does our offense, what rationale would suggest he brings either coordinator back next year, other than simply patience and process......which is to say, hope.
It's Clint and Shane who shouldn't get a pass in all of this. Time for them both to make a difference. They need to be a step ahead of the opposition, not a step behind. If we know the opposition is going to run screens on offense, and we still can't stop it, are we coaching that correctly? If the offense knows the defensive philosophy and how it attacks offenses, can we not scheme beaters to take them away from what they do best?
I know injuries and having a young team (youngest team with a winning record I think) can create chaos that's hard to overcome for coordinators, so I don't want to be too hard on Clint and Shane. They'll get their chance in the next few weeks to show whether they can make a difference for their team. I don't give either of them another year in Seattle if they can't.
Wentz to the Rams! We might get the benefit of taking on Carson Wentz this season, perfect for stat padding and lulling ourselves into a false sense of security. (I really like Carson and a post-career dissection on him will be beyond fascinating)
We’ve got what we’ve got now, so we have to make do with it. If Pete and Waldron aren’t gonna give Lock a go, then they have to scheme better to allow Geno to get it off earlier and use more run game and blocking. That’s the how and the why. That’s what they need to do and that’s what what they haven’t been doing. The when is NOW before it’s too late. IMO Lock should be part of it, even if it’s just interchanging him and Geno throughout the game instead of completely dropping him.
Don’t know why you’ve been so confused Joe!
They are no stronger than their weakest link, which is the OL. When it can't consistently compete, you get 3 and outs, great running backs who get stopped, an OK QB under too much pressure, excessive dependence on TEs for blocking instead of receiving, and then so many downs for the D that they get gassed and too easily read. Lucas coming back will hopefully make a difference but then they're still just another starter injury away from the same fate.
Love the let's really think about this !!! We can all be GM's and Coaches, I love it - I am absolutely positive they have a plan, together, I just don't really very often agree with it! For the D - I am believer in what the Ravens have , A Monster in the middle to big DT along side ,Basically a true DE on one side ,then flush the other with a LB or as Pete says a LEO, -Love their plan. It would be mine. I remember in the 90's I floated playing 3 safeties all the time ,one basically be a hybrid LB/ safety, HE needing to be the smartest guy on the field/essential being a free agent /play caller. Guess what -ten years later we started seeing it. NOW on offense ,said before ,Other than QB it needs to be on the O-line. Nothing works without them ,nothing!!! You can have all the so-called skill players you want ,to have a Consistent quality offense you need a good O-line!!! NUTSHELL!
Ah yes, it's November 7th and Kenny has introduced the "Is Pete still a good head coach?" discussion into the discourse (because that's what this entire thing boils down to). Not that it's not appropriate right now, but this has come up every year since like 2015* and the fact that it never really goes away is probably something that should actually concern everyone, including Pete's biggest fans. Because this topic has had ample ammo for a long time.
*we mostly skipped this last year because the specific issues could be blamed on specific players, but it's still the same core issue...coaching and leadership.
Maybe I'll join you in the negativity chorus if the Hawks lay another egg like the last one, but for now I'm still on the glass is half full side. They have good players, especially on a developing defense. My hope is that they just hit a snag. Hey, the Broncos beat the Chiefs. The NFL is surprising more often than not. Let's see how they rebound. Seaside, buck up.
Couple other things about post. Why are we underselling the lions? This team has a very good shot at being the number 1 seed in the NFC. If that’s not a great win, on the road, at their home opener in a very hostile environment... what is?
Going toe to toe with the bengals on the road and kind of getting unlucky not to win? That’s not a good game? They just went on the road to the Niners and smoked them. They also are a top team in the AFC.
So I don’t get why those two games are being undersold.
Also, great teams have a stinker game most years. Even the SB champion
2022 rams lost to Cards 37-20 and SF 31-10
2020 Bucs lost 38-3 to New Orleans
2019 patriots lost 34-10 to the titans
It’s not great to get your ass kicked... but it’s also not uncommon for great teams to have it happen to them. I would even say it’s pretty typical during the course of an NFL season.
NFL all about how you bounce back.
I've been pessimistic about this team all year, as is clear from my comments. They've won some games I didn't expect them to win but I've never been convinced they were any better than I thought. When I look at this team, I see some really promising young guys, including one who could be something truly special. But the pieces don't fit together. There are way too many veterans getting paid way too much for way too little. We're sticking with a clearly inadequate QB rather than finding out if the other guy might be better for no reason I can discern other than the coach's ego.
I had hope, following the last two draft classes, that the front office had finally gotten smart. Until last week when they made what immediately seemed to me an idiotic trade. I wouldn't have been in favor of a ten week rental of Aaron Donald at the price of 2nd and 5th round picks! Particularly not when the team desperately needs a quarterback.
Until now, I always thought Pete Carroll a gifted coach but now I'm starting to question his intelligence. Said it out loud after the trade but before the loss to Baltimore. That I'm not sure he's the sharpest knife in the drawer. When one thinks about all the botched strategies, failures to adjust, insistence on sticking to failed strategies and inexplicable decisions, one has to wonder. Throwing on first down in the 2014 superbowl when we had Beastmode in his prime? Man, if you're going to lose, go down with your best weapon. How about sticking with the run in that playoff game against Dallas when they were practically beggging us to pass. How many times has this team had to call a time out to avoid a penalty?
I'm thinking it's time to move on from Carroll. I'd be open to giving Schneider a chance at GM without Pete looking over his shoulder (if I knew that he was running the draft these last couple of years). If the ones before that were the product of Carroll's brilliance, that would explain a lot.
Back in the early days of the PC/JS regime they were not afraid to cut or move vets that were average or in the downside of their career. In the 2011-2015 they added vets at the start of the run then increased it to keep the run alive.
They seem to think this is just a soft rebuild and they just need to add a few key vets here and there the problem is the vets seem to be all in the downside of careers. Geno ? Diggs? Etc.
I believe they have some good pieces but need to add elite young talent. Take the lumps now for a year and build up. That means moving on for high priced vets that are not worth the cost. Look to ‘25 as the year
Since the D in DVOA means "Defense-adjusted", the 10th place considers the strength of the defenses faced, so it's not fair to double dip on the "bad defenses" penalty. DVOA already does that.
I believe that a mediocre game against a fantastic Browns defense may be doing a lot of heavy lifting — and sucking against the Ravens (the second best defense) didn't weight that much —, ir was ugly, but all metrics of that game for the Browns D were worse than their season averages.
But the Lions are the 8th best defense, and Cincinnati the 11th best (still going by DVOA). It may seem strange to say so, but the Seahawks faced 4 good defenses (including the 2 best) and 4 bad ones (all 4 in the bottom 7, and the upcoming Commies are also in that group).
Apart from the Rams, we won against all bad defenses, the very best, the 8th best, and lost to the 2nd best and the 11th best.
So the offense still functioned against good defenses (Ravens notwithstanding), just not as well as they did against bad ones.
Once we reverse, apart from the Lions, we only won against bad offenses (4 of the bottom 6). So yeah, defense is looking fantastic against the likes of Giants, but terrible against any competent team.
Personally, very happy with the team and the direction it is going. I think Pete Carroll deserves to get criticized for his unsuccessful attempts at maintaining a good team in the post LOB era.
But for my money, there is no one I want more in charge than PC and JS to build a team. We are in year 2 of the rebuild and I think it is in a great spot. I would tell Jody to stay the course.
I’m a bit difference from most as I expected the hawks to make the playoffs last year. Every article claiming they were tanking or signing baker mayfield or whatever flavor of the day, kind of got a chuckle from me. So in my mind, this is all going to plan.
The big decision will be this off-season. Stay with Geno? Go to Lock? Or draft a rookie QB? We will be entering year 3 of the rebuild and the rookies will be 3 years into their contracts with the second crop in year 2.
This will be especially interesting if the Hawks win a playoff game or if the hawks make the playoffs and lose. What’s enough to stay with Geno? I don’t know
Although I still am bullish this year the real opportunity is 2024 and 2025 (year 4 of the 2022 rookie class).
Unfortunately, the Niners may have hit on a rookie QB that would be detrimental to our chances. Altho I am not anywhere near sold on Purdy. I also have seen Shanny blow it consistently in pressure situations. Pete also owns the Niners and shanny. So we will see.
My opinion, stay the course! Rebuild is going great. Very unfortunate to get the tackles injured as those were the pieces I really wanted to stay take a step forward this year. But injuries are out of anyones control.
If I were jody, I am looking at the 2025 season results. That would be the year from me that settles what to do moving forward.
On the flip side, I do not want to see another regime come in and mess up this rebuild to bring in “their guys”. That is exactly what bad organizations do and gets franchises stuck in quagmires for years.
Stay the course, Go hawks
Just listened to Marshawn on Smartless, and he didn't have anything good to say about Pete. Maybe the rah rah isn't enough to coach an elite football team. I want to see the Seahawks become great again at defense and running the football, it's what Pete is supposed to be good at but we haven't seen it in what seems like forever. If we could get that back, any QB would look good.
The offense wins time of possession, scores consistently, is able to hold the ball with few turnovers. It features a better than average (top 10 at least) run game, and big-play capability in the WR room.
The defense gives up yards but stingy on points, and wins turnovers for the offense. Plus pressure rate and above average secondary.
Special teams are not ordinary.
It is a formula that works, and it is called "Pete ball."
And the Seahawks *do have the players* to play complementary football, right now against all but the best opposition IF everybody does their job. The major problem is the one we have been disucssing--a QB that is capable of running the show.
If the offense turns the ball over, goes 3/out consistently, the D gets gassed and everything falls apart.