I’ve said before that I wasn’t a fan of the PC hire, but then he won me over. The SB win is obviously a factor, but I really liked his relentless optimism and positivity. So many coaches are dour bores and he was anything but that.
Having said that, the last few seasons were the definition of mediocrity and change was warranted. That’s the biggest, most important change for the Hawks this off season and everything else flows from it. I like the MM pick, but as Ruthanne pointed out it’s a risky move. I hope it works like the McVay hire and not Hackett. I’m more excited to see the Hawks product this year than I have been in awhile.
I'm picking best move as waiting to 81 to go for offensive line. Christian Haynes was a 2nd round pick on most boards. Though I might have taken the fella out of South Dakota, Mason McCormack at a later spot if a trade down was there.
I like that one a lot too. Most expected Seattle take a tackle and convert them to guard but instead they drafted the top pure guard in the 3rd round. Brilliant!
I think the MM hire is a bigger deal only because we have kept so many players from last year, especially on offense. I really want to know if our slide into mediocrity is about coaching & scheme or over-estimating our talent. Most all of us expected more from the last two years with what we assumed were really good drafts & also because Pete kept telling us that this thing was really close. I personally want to know, was it or was Pete losing his connection with what it takes to win in today's NFL?
I'm not of the belief that the Seahawks are all that different of a team than they'd be if we hadn't replaced Carroll with Mike Mac. Our starting safeties were 100% getting cut, as were Dissly and Bellore. Maybe we'd have re-signed Brooks, and probably would have let Dee Eskridge go. But all of the these bloated salary guys were all being talked about as goners here at SSJ long before the Pete news broke and I feel like Mike MacDonald will get credit where it's not necessarily due.
And saddened though I was by Pete's firing, I'm probably more optimistic today than I would have been had he stayed on and every personnel move stayed the same. Pete was a legend, but it was getting harder and harder to defend the Seahawk performances, and especially on defense. A string of bad drafts and big swings that missed like the Jimmy Graham and Adams trades had us trying to play catch up for too long. Until we traded Russ and started (seemingly) drafting much better, it was looking like a 10-7 season and losing in the wild card round ceiling and an 8-9 floor. And that's just about the definition of mediocre.
First time head coaches are always a gamble, but I'll put up no argument with those who say that it was time to take a gamble. Something needed to be shaken up beyond firing the DC again and elevating a new one from within again.
Pete kept trying to build a Strong safety forward defense and Unfortunately unless you have a strong or at least decent D-line it just doesn't work! A change there was warranted and I too believe they made a very good choice, But we will see moving forward. Great draft choice by John and the patience to see it through! Though overall they had a very good draft and I'll say it again the Utah O-line guy is an animal and look for him to be a player!
The biggest move IMHO is the return to competition. You know, real competition, where the players settle on the field who deserves the snaps. Mike Mac has no pre-existing relationships or loyalty to any of these guys, so he'll watch, and the best players will play the most, barring injuries. I would guess there will be some animosity in practices building up during training camp. Maybe some scraps. One of the questions Steve Hutchinson asked at a player interview was "When were you last in a fight, and why?".
On a related note, if you haven't watched tape of the NC State vs UConn game, go watch it. Christian Haynes is a hunter/seeker. Peyton Wilson couldn't wait for that game to be over. The guy is always getting to the 2nd and 3rd level, and lays guys out when he gets there. He is not looking to 'block' you. He's looking to kick your ass. I laughed out loud several times while watching that. I'm pretty sure he did some ground-and-pound once after knocking Wilson to the ground. No flags though.
With Haynes and Laumea competing in camp, presumably for either the RG or LG spots, the d-line might get sick of that treatment at some point. And Murphy on the other side of the ball......it should be interesting.
This might seem like an odd one to bring up, but I love the Hayden Hatton UDFA pickup. He's my Bobo for this year. Dude's a football player.
And this is an old thread so kind of doubt anyone else sees this post but I wanted to give you an update.
I've now watched that condensed game as well as Boston College and Florida State which he was graded well in. My first realization of watching is that I see why I don't often watch iOL "tape" (aka YouTube videos). It's hard to see what's going on after the snap unless the camera angle is just right. And there's a finite number of times I'm willing to back it up and watch again. I don't have all-22 nor am I good enough or even interested enough to pursue getting but it's pretty eye opening to see how little you can see most plays. But they usually show a reply from a different camera and you get a decent picture of what happened on any big play. And I got to see Christian Haynes make some dude's days miserable.
My biggest takeaway is that he's a nasty player. He gets low and baits the D lineman into getting lower. When they do, at times he doesn't even rush forward at the snap, but almost backs up until their weight is over their feet and then just lays on them like a sandbag. It's like a pancake, but you're making the guy pancake himself. He's just one of those guys who would suck to play against.
The 2 Minute Drill videos mentioned that a weakness of his is being slow to move off of the snap, and that didn't line up with what I had watched at all. What I did notice as a negative, is that when he's asked to block upfield, he will sometimes time his block poorly and whiff completely. I never saw this happen at the LOS, only when a play goes to the next level, though I watched only 2 games and 2-3 of highlights. But I'd think it's surely coachable. He was touted in his highlights as a great pass pro blocker but I never saw him (in however many snaps this amounted to) get dominated in a running play. Also, I'm unsure how many guys he was blocking will be playing on Sundays.
To wrap it up, iOL picks are the least sexy draft picks, and they're even hard to watch highlights of! But that doesn't change the fact that if you want the sexy receiver to get open or sexy RB to have a lane to run through, you'd better have good ones. And I'd wager we have a good one in Haynes, if not a cornerstone. Plus, I'll make the joke later when everybody is reading that "I'm glad we changed our Haynes!"
Always appreciate recommendations on games to watch, since I waste much time finding and sitting through less than ideal ones. NCSU vs UConn is on my list now. As UFDAs go, I'm very happy that we landed Nelson Ceasar, who my spellcheck hates but I am very excited about. Though good luck finding University of Houston games.
I do feel like our trenches can only be improved, and they were a problem last year. Maybe they can be a problem for opponents here soon.
Its the firing of Pete, because that opens up so many of the following good moves.
If Pete was around we wouldn't have gone and got Howell. We wouldn't have cut both Adams and Diggs. We probably keep Brooks. Basically we, again, mostly run it back on ever diminishing returns.
However the single upside to that would be Pete gets let go at the end of this season, and we have a native draft pick high enough to take Ewers.
So yes, letting Pete go. Then the Howell signing and it's no secret I'm a big fan and genuinely believe he earns the Wk1 starting role. Then just all the smart financial moves to create a rounded team pre-draft allowing us to go for players we just like and want rather than need.
Moving on from Pete is the only move that I see as significant. If Pete was still the coach would you really be surprised by any of the personnel choices this offseason. Would Pete have really okayed the Williams trade if the plan was not to try to resign. Signing Williams necessitated cutting Diggs and letting Lewis walk. Likewise the writing was on the wall for Adams. Would have Pete traded or cut Geno. Would have vetoed trading for a backup Quarterback with development potential. Maybe Pete would have signed Bobby instead of the Buffalo linebacker but that really is it. The draft also looked like a Pete draft. In short Pete’s gone but so far the only thing different is that John is taking more and the basketball goal is gone. A couple of things Pete said now stand out to me. The first was his argument that the Seahawks were close after the Dallas game. The second was his statement that non-football people made the decision. At the time I thought that was an argument against blowing it up and starting over. But after the offseason it is pretty clear that John was not looking to blow up John wanted to play a different brand of football with the players the Seahawks have. Last season the Seahawks looked more like a team on the verge of being bottom 6 rather than on the verge of greatness. John deposing Pete, and trust me it was John and not Jodi or her advisors that made this decision did not make sense to me. Because 1) the draft order made it pretty clear that Seahawks would not get a new quarterback and 2) the Seahawks had a very good chance of being the worst team in the west. The last time that happened the very forgettable Mora year, everyone got fired. It just seemed to make sense to let Pete finish his contract and start fresh from there with a little more leeway as the end could be laid at Pete’s feet. Now I think that John thinks he is going to win. He brought in a coach to coach the defensive players he brought in the way the Ravens would. When it became clear to John that he was unlikely to able to trade up for the QB he wanted. he brought in an offensive coordinator who believes will run a system that gets the most out of the skill players the Seahawks have. Hiring Mike McDonald and Grubb could be an incredible disaster or the start of something great. Either way it will be interesting.
I disagree - We needed a change in defensive philosophy- instead of back forward it should always be front first! Love Pete ,always will ,but a change was warranted. The offensive isn't the problem , even last year. It was the D couldn't get off the field and O-line needed help ( some would say lots of help). They have brought in allot of players to get some help and if Olu or Harris can play a decent center they should be very much improved!~
Could you please explain a little more about why you think firing Pete was primarily John’s decision as opposed to Jody/Bert/the Trust?
I have been trying to read the tea leaves on this question, myself, and am curious about your conclusions.
Pete had one year left on his contract. In his last Seattle Sports interview, he said he had a plan to completely address the problems he thought were holding the team back, I can understand why, if the Trust did not plan to offer Pete another multi-year contract extension, they could logically conclude it wasn’t advisable to let Pete start on his plan when he would not be around to finish it.
What I don’t understand is why they (a) didn’t resolve this early enough to start the coaching search on a timely basis (b) move forward with a proven championship-caliber replacement and (c) position this as a retirement instead of a termination.
The decision to hire a coaching staff comprised of coaches who are new to the Seahawks, new to their positions, new to each other, new to the NFL, new to the players and even new to Seattle is highest risk strategy JS could have chosen. Whatever the ceiling might be, this strategy has the absolutely lowest floor. (See: the spectacular failure of Hackett and his staff in Denver. Yes, it is true that MM was a better defensive coordinator than NH was offensive coordinator, but he is still a rookie HC who, like Hackett, has surrounded himself with coordinators who are also rookies and position coaches who are new to those positions.)
The average tenure of an NFL head coach is 3 years. The pressure on MM and staff to deliver significant performance improvements in the first season will be immense. And the pressure on JS to defend his hiring decision if MM falters will be even greater.
I don’t understand why JS would ditch Pete, put the target on his own back, and then ratchet up the pressure to such an extreme degree.
I don't see how anyone can say it was JS- He didn't have that power unless Jody gave it to him! It was time - Pete had basically five years to fix or rebuild the D and it never happened , it just continued to get worse!
Why I believe the move on from Pete was John’s strategy.
1. Timing owners rarely do delayed firings because they don’t want to be behind in the hiring game.
2. Owners that fire the coach want to have largest say in picking the next one.
3. Owners who have decided to move on from a coach don’t suggest they stay on with the team in some capacity.
4. If ownership was is unsure about John they don’t give him all the power. Eg John hired Mikes staff not Mike.
4. What I see is John and Pete come in for end of year meeting and John says we need to move on and I have a plan. Pete is shocked and fights for job but looses. Ownership which is uncomfortable with owning the decision tries to spin this as Pete is being moved upstairs to advisory position not fired.
Yes you are right what they have done is extraordinarily risky. If John and these are the ideas of Jodi and her advisers would you not make it clear that you are working with them in case everything goes wrong and you need to get a new job? Even Pete was careful to protect that Jodi was part of the draft process the last few years. None of that this year.
I think it is a little crazy but you have got to admire the balls of the moves.
Have you noticed that all the leaked stories put John in a favorable light. John wanted to draft Mahomes, John wanted to trade up for Allen, John found Wilson - Pete then wanted to get him in the first but John knew they could get him in the third. John brilliantly negotiated the Denver trade. Note there is never anything about the bad trades. When the stories consistently favor one person that is the person most likely leaking them. How many GMs have their own radio show? John got the radio show this last year. Do you think that was a coincidence. Most GMs are content to be in the background, but not John. The only GMs out there more than John are Jerry Jones and Howie Roseman. John has an ego and he wants the public acclaim. That was never going to happen as long as Pete was there. Pete Carol is the center of attention in any room. Mike Macdonald is John’s perfect coach. The guy is almost introverted. I agree that if you look closely it is easy not to like him. Still part of me is rooting for him because in this Game of Thrones he lives if the Seahawks win.
Yeah, I understand that you blame Pete for last year’s regression. I don’t. And neither do the professional prognosticators, based on their over/under wins progression since the reboot post-Wilson in 2022.
2022 O/U was 5.5 wins. Hawks won 9, obviously outperforming expectations significantly.
2023 O/U was 8.5 wins. Hawks won 9, essentially matching expectations, despite significant challenges with injuries, a draft class that largely failed to contribute by comparison with the previous year, and a much harder schedule.
**2024 O/U is 7.5 wins.** The professionals think the Hawks are worse off without Pete and expect the team to have a losing record. I do, too.
Insert applause GIF here for Ruthanne. And the "Bold strategy, Cotton" one for John Schneider.
There is so, SO much that we as fans are not privy to, as much as many fans feel sure that their theories are right. Mostly on Twitter and Reddit, then Field Gulls, and not nearly as much here, but it exists. WE DON'T KNOW so much about what happened. From the LOB breakup/Wickersham article, Russ saga, Paul Allen's passing and Jodi taking over, Pete's stance, where John Schneider falls on all of this, and on and on. There are still people out there on the internet who are sure that Tate had an affair with Russell Wilson's wife even today and that's about as disproven as much as one can be asked to prove a negative. We are all reading tea leaves, and too many of us are feeling like we can write history.
I've heard people say things I think are laughable such as, "Last two year's draft picks were so good because Jodi was in the room!" Yeah, that MUST be it! I'm sure she told Pete, John and the scouts, "Look, we're staying put at pick #5. This Witherspoon kid is the real deal and I want him. For any knocks there are on his straight-line speed, you've had to see how much ground he covers if he bites on a comeback route! For his size he's far and away the hardest hitting corner I've broken down tape on in 4 years!" Good lord. She's Paul Allen's sister, people. He wasn't even a football person and left those decisions up to the people he hired. She has temporarily inherited the team. Does anyone really think Pete and John would have been calling all the other 31 teams and just rabidly trying to make a useless trade or even take the whole affair less seriously if she wasn't occupying a chair beside them?
Not a huge plus move, but I would add Nick Belore to the list of released players once beloved that had passed their expiration date.
And a plus for adding two corners?
I'd suggest we have to seriously re-examine our pre-draft assumptions that the cornerback 'room' was not an area of need. Schneider has said they draft more for need in the later rounds, yes? So drafting two new ones would indicate the new regime was not impressed with the incumbents, if they 'needed' replacement candidates. There have been many criticisms that they weren't taking the best available players with those CB picks. But with that context, maybe they actually were.
For one, Woolen didn't present as a great / fast cover guy after his pre-season injury, and was pretty poor against the run when he didn't have Nwosu in front of him.
And the cigar celebration might have been seen more negatively than the team let on.
We have 3 maybe 4 corners who haven’t really competed consistently for positions . I think Michael Jackson and Coby Bryant are on prove it years and it’s most strategic to get those replacements in here now, rather than next year. Worst case scenario you have more depth/ST players
Sam Howell played for Wake Forest in a quirky run offense. He went to Notre Dame to get a Heisman. That didn't work. Howell started for Wake for multiple years. He's a great passer - long ball and short. Real leader. I live less than 15 minutes from Wake's stadium. I only saw him in person a couple of times. But saw quite a few games on TV. I think he can take over from Geno by the end of this season or next season.
Starting the Draft with Murphy was a huge boost to JS and the coaches. A great start for an entirely new group of guys. Kudos to JS for smelling the possibility and the patience to watch it unfold. A dog-gone Miracle, by golly. He's in good with the Lord. Let's hope they jinned us up another one... or two. I'm smiling, in any event.
Taking Schneider's view as GM, I'd say changing coaches is the same as changing players. Pete rode herd on big changes in the game, especially with the rules of engagement as concerns injury. Watching Tre Flowers finally making a great defensive move to jar the ball loose, only to draw a flag, brought home to me how hard this transition was. He went to the Ref asking "How do I play this game?" The look on Carroll's face said the same thing. Coaching took a full body blow during those times. Irregardless, Schneider did not have the luxury of complaining. Something had to be done and it eventually was. Given time, Pete would have adjusted as he always has. I hope the HOF recognizes the contributions and innovations he brought to the Game of Football. He truly was intent on player safety and was trying to make coaching a career someone could expect to make a Home here in Seattle. If it was possible, he was the guy who could do it. But Winning requires an edginess to do more and reach new heights. Being "Football People" will remain a nomadic existence.
Can’t argue with the Murphy pick. I think we’d all agree with that.
I also think a new coach was a good thing but time will tell if he was the right choice. I guess that goes with any selection though - including players.
I agree with you that I probably would have still been happy with Pete staying, but now he’s gone, I also feel excited about what might be.
Now….I know this is now getting away from Seahawks topics, but your last couple of posts have been quite anti-Nix. You haven’t commented previously to my queries, but I’d like to know what it is that you see that causes you to rate him so much below the other QB’s in the class. You haven’t supplied any reasons for your negativity (& this has been a common theme from most pundits throughout the draft process). The only things I’ve heard against him are that his deep ball isn’t that good (though it’s not that bad either) and that he achieved more than he would have because he was fronted by an elite OL. Well, as a ducks fan, I know that ain’t quite true. Only one player was considered a potential first round choice in the draft, and he ended up going R2. Truth is, the Ducks succeeded because they had a very good QB and were well coached.
I find it quite odd that you haven’t qualified your opinion on Nix with logic and reason as you do with every other of your thoughts and opinions.
He may well not be suited to the NFL. Time will tell. But I for one will be watching this space.
Don’t get me wrong, I love reading your posts every day and look forward to them. I appreciate all the time and effort you put in, and I won’t hold it against you if you don’t have the time to answer my curiosity.
I am one who believes if given a decent O-line in the NFL Bo Nix will be a very good QB. In fact if I was drafting I liked him better than Penix! For a multitude of reasons. We shall all see .
I am not a Duck's fan, but I thought Bo Nix was the best QB in the draft. And the stupid Sean Peyton led Broncos were the last team I wanted to see get him outside of a division rival.
The Seahawks podcasts I listen to pretty universally panned Denver's selection there also. All the talk about his great O line that in my opinion looked good because he got rid of the ball and moved in the pocket really seemed like lazy takes.
I may be totally wrong and he turns out to be a bum in the pros. It certainly wouldn't be the first time (see Wilson, Zach). QB is the hardest position for even pro scouts to get right (see Trubisky going 8 slots before Mahomes) so I certainly am not going to get overconfident from watching condensed games on YouTube with my limited knowledge. But I do think that a lot of scouts and GMs have SO much knowledge that they over-analyze quarterbacks to their own detriments sometimes.
I don't feel like Kenneth has expressed an anti-Nix opinion, so much as pointing out where he's typically been ranked amongst the QB prospects, his likely pre-draft grade from most GMs, and how rare it is for guys in his position to become solid starting QBs. Maybe I missed something, but I don't think he's been critical of Nix as a player/person, only of the process that leads to him being picked 12th overall into a situation where he'll likely be expected to start right away for a rebuilding (if not bad) team.
Fair enough. But my question then becomes why would SSJ just take the ‘typical ranking’ in this case? When has he ever done that without qualifying it?
SSJ hasn’t said anything about Nix the person (I never meant to insinuate that), but he’s never ranked him as a top 2-3 QB and suggested he was more like a r.2 draft pick. To me, this is a bit anti-Nix.
Hey, I’m sure he’s got his reasons. I’m just interested in hearing what they are.
Coach Peyton swears up and down they had Nix going at #2. I can accept a guy like Peyton slathering on a lot of lipstick on a frustrating situation or he may actually be a genius and not just a benefactor of a very good QB. Obviously, it is something a young QB needs to hear and his coach wants him playing with a pissed-off edge. He wants the whole team PO'ed. You say you watched Nix and I'll side with you, as actual observation means more to me than film or stats. Something about being in the room speaks volumes when looking for the "IT" factor. It'll be something I will root for next year.
Gregg Cosell on Nix: “I could see a coach like Sean Payton believing Nix could run his offense effectively with the timing and rhythm element that is foundational, making power arm strength not a prerequisite.”
His arm is not that bad ! Can he throw a 80 yard bomb like Penix -NO- But he has allot of skills Penix doesn't have , one being he doesn't throw a bunch of low side arm deliveries ,which won't work much in the NFL- Plus he can move around much more effectively than Penix can!
I think you hit the nail on the head with this one.
My vote would be for the Sam Howell trade. He got out ahead of the QB market.
I wonder if Denver felt they had to take Nix with the Raiders lurking behind them. The QBs felt like a game of musical chairs that kept their values increasing til 6 were drafted in the top 12.
The Sam Howell move. It allowed all the rest of it to happen after Drew Lock left.
On a side note: you, Kenneth are so kicking ass with each new day. This supposedly fallow period in NFL news has proven to be a spur in your side as far as writing goes. These articles are interesting and informative. I'm renewing dude. Keep 'em coming.
I’ve said before that I wasn’t a fan of the PC hire, but then he won me over. The SB win is obviously a factor, but I really liked his relentless optimism and positivity. So many coaches are dour bores and he was anything but that.
Having said that, the last few seasons were the definition of mediocrity and change was warranted. That’s the biggest, most important change for the Hawks this off season and everything else flows from it. I like the MM pick, but as Ruthanne pointed out it’s a risky move. I hope it works like the McVay hire and not Hackett. I’m more excited to see the Hawks product this year than I have been in awhile.
I’m absolutely hoping that it works out like McVay and not like Hackett. That said, have a look at the résumé’s of McVay’s first coaching staff: https://www.espn.com/blog/los-angeles-rams/post/_/id/32979/rams-sean-mcvay-completes-first-coaching-staff-as-nfl-head-coach .
I'm picking best move as waiting to 81 to go for offensive line. Christian Haynes was a 2nd round pick on most boards. Though I might have taken the fella out of South Dakota, Mason McCormack at a later spot if a trade down was there.
That was a great pick!
I like that one a lot too. Most expected Seattle take a tackle and convert them to guard but instead they drafted the top pure guard in the 3rd round. Brilliant!
I think the MM hire is a bigger deal only because we have kept so many players from last year, especially on offense. I really want to know if our slide into mediocrity is about coaching & scheme or over-estimating our talent. Most all of us expected more from the last two years with what we assumed were really good drafts & also because Pete kept telling us that this thing was really close. I personally want to know, was it or was Pete losing his connection with what it takes to win in today's NFL?
I'm not of the belief that the Seahawks are all that different of a team than they'd be if we hadn't replaced Carroll with Mike Mac. Our starting safeties were 100% getting cut, as were Dissly and Bellore. Maybe we'd have re-signed Brooks, and probably would have let Dee Eskridge go. But all of the these bloated salary guys were all being talked about as goners here at SSJ long before the Pete news broke and I feel like Mike MacDonald will get credit where it's not necessarily due.
And saddened though I was by Pete's firing, I'm probably more optimistic today than I would have been had he stayed on and every personnel move stayed the same. Pete was a legend, but it was getting harder and harder to defend the Seahawk performances, and especially on defense. A string of bad drafts and big swings that missed like the Jimmy Graham and Adams trades had us trying to play catch up for too long. Until we traded Russ and started (seemingly) drafting much better, it was looking like a 10-7 season and losing in the wild card round ceiling and an 8-9 floor. And that's just about the definition of mediocre.
First time head coaches are always a gamble, but I'll put up no argument with those who say that it was time to take a gamble. Something needed to be shaken up beyond firing the DC again and elevating a new one from within again.
Pete kept trying to build a Strong safety forward defense and Unfortunately unless you have a strong or at least decent D-line it just doesn't work! A change there was warranted and I too believe they made a very good choice, But we will see moving forward. Great draft choice by John and the patience to see it through! Though overall they had a very good draft and I'll say it again the Utah O-line guy is an animal and look for him to be a player!
The biggest move IMHO is the return to competition. You know, real competition, where the players settle on the field who deserves the snaps. Mike Mac has no pre-existing relationships or loyalty to any of these guys, so he'll watch, and the best players will play the most, barring injuries. I would guess there will be some animosity in practices building up during training camp. Maybe some scraps. One of the questions Steve Hutchinson asked at a player interview was "When were you last in a fight, and why?".
On a related note, if you haven't watched tape of the NC State vs UConn game, go watch it. Christian Haynes is a hunter/seeker. Peyton Wilson couldn't wait for that game to be over. The guy is always getting to the 2nd and 3rd level, and lays guys out when he gets there. He is not looking to 'block' you. He's looking to kick your ass. I laughed out loud several times while watching that. I'm pretty sure he did some ground-and-pound once after knocking Wilson to the ground. No flags though.
With Haynes and Laumea competing in camp, presumably for either the RG or LG spots, the d-line might get sick of that treatment at some point. And Murphy on the other side of the ball......it should be interesting.
This might seem like an odd one to bring up, but I love the Hayden Hatton UDFA pickup. He's my Bobo for this year. Dude's a football player.
@Chris H
And this is an old thread so kind of doubt anyone else sees this post but I wanted to give you an update.
I've now watched that condensed game as well as Boston College and Florida State which he was graded well in. My first realization of watching is that I see why I don't often watch iOL "tape" (aka YouTube videos). It's hard to see what's going on after the snap unless the camera angle is just right. And there's a finite number of times I'm willing to back it up and watch again. I don't have all-22 nor am I good enough or even interested enough to pursue getting but it's pretty eye opening to see how little you can see most plays. But they usually show a reply from a different camera and you get a decent picture of what happened on any big play. And I got to see Christian Haynes make some dude's days miserable.
My biggest takeaway is that he's a nasty player. He gets low and baits the D lineman into getting lower. When they do, at times he doesn't even rush forward at the snap, but almost backs up until their weight is over their feet and then just lays on them like a sandbag. It's like a pancake, but you're making the guy pancake himself. He's just one of those guys who would suck to play against.
The 2 Minute Drill videos mentioned that a weakness of his is being slow to move off of the snap, and that didn't line up with what I had watched at all. What I did notice as a negative, is that when he's asked to block upfield, he will sometimes time his block poorly and whiff completely. I never saw this happen at the LOS, only when a play goes to the next level, though I watched only 2 games and 2-3 of highlights. But I'd think it's surely coachable. He was touted in his highlights as a great pass pro blocker but I never saw him (in however many snaps this amounted to) get dominated in a running play. Also, I'm unsure how many guys he was blocking will be playing on Sundays.
To wrap it up, iOL picks are the least sexy draft picks, and they're even hard to watch highlights of! But that doesn't change the fact that if you want the sexy receiver to get open or sexy RB to have a lane to run through, you'd better have good ones. And I'd wager we have a good one in Haynes, if not a cornerstone. Plus, I'll make the joke later when everybody is reading that "I'm glad we changed our Haynes!"
Always appreciate recommendations on games to watch, since I waste much time finding and sitting through less than ideal ones. NCSU vs UConn is on my list now. As UFDAs go, I'm very happy that we landed Nelson Ceasar, who my spellcheck hates but I am very excited about. Though good luck finding University of Houston games.
I do feel like our trenches can only be improved, and they were a problem last year. Maybe they can be a problem for opponents here soon.
Its the firing of Pete, because that opens up so many of the following good moves.
If Pete was around we wouldn't have gone and got Howell. We wouldn't have cut both Adams and Diggs. We probably keep Brooks. Basically we, again, mostly run it back on ever diminishing returns.
However the single upside to that would be Pete gets let go at the end of this season, and we have a native draft pick high enough to take Ewers.
So yes, letting Pete go. Then the Howell signing and it's no secret I'm a big fan and genuinely believe he earns the Wk1 starting role. Then just all the smart financial moves to create a rounded team pre-draft allowing us to go for players we just like and want rather than need.
You are correct. I have Sam Howell and Sam Hartman confused. It's late in the east.
Moving on from Pete is the only move that I see as significant. If Pete was still the coach would you really be surprised by any of the personnel choices this offseason. Would Pete have really okayed the Williams trade if the plan was not to try to resign. Signing Williams necessitated cutting Diggs and letting Lewis walk. Likewise the writing was on the wall for Adams. Would have Pete traded or cut Geno. Would have vetoed trading for a backup Quarterback with development potential. Maybe Pete would have signed Bobby instead of the Buffalo linebacker but that really is it. The draft also looked like a Pete draft. In short Pete’s gone but so far the only thing different is that John is taking more and the basketball goal is gone. A couple of things Pete said now stand out to me. The first was his argument that the Seahawks were close after the Dallas game. The second was his statement that non-football people made the decision. At the time I thought that was an argument against blowing it up and starting over. But after the offseason it is pretty clear that John was not looking to blow up John wanted to play a different brand of football with the players the Seahawks have. Last season the Seahawks looked more like a team on the verge of being bottom 6 rather than on the verge of greatness. John deposing Pete, and trust me it was John and not Jodi or her advisors that made this decision did not make sense to me. Because 1) the draft order made it pretty clear that Seahawks would not get a new quarterback and 2) the Seahawks had a very good chance of being the worst team in the west. The last time that happened the very forgettable Mora year, everyone got fired. It just seemed to make sense to let Pete finish his contract and start fresh from there with a little more leeway as the end could be laid at Pete’s feet. Now I think that John thinks he is going to win. He brought in a coach to coach the defensive players he brought in the way the Ravens would. When it became clear to John that he was unlikely to able to trade up for the QB he wanted. he brought in an offensive coordinator who believes will run a system that gets the most out of the skill players the Seahawks have. Hiring Mike McDonald and Grubb could be an incredible disaster or the start of something great. Either way it will be interesting.
I disagree - We needed a change in defensive philosophy- instead of back forward it should always be front first! Love Pete ,always will ,but a change was warranted. The offensive isn't the problem , even last year. It was the D couldn't get off the field and O-line needed help ( some would say lots of help). They have brought in allot of players to get some help and if Olu or Harris can play a decent center they should be very much improved!~
Could you please explain a little more about why you think firing Pete was primarily John’s decision as opposed to Jody/Bert/the Trust?
I have been trying to read the tea leaves on this question, myself, and am curious about your conclusions.
Pete had one year left on his contract. In his last Seattle Sports interview, he said he had a plan to completely address the problems he thought were holding the team back, I can understand why, if the Trust did not plan to offer Pete another multi-year contract extension, they could logically conclude it wasn’t advisable to let Pete start on his plan when he would not be around to finish it.
What I don’t understand is why they (a) didn’t resolve this early enough to start the coaching search on a timely basis (b) move forward with a proven championship-caliber replacement and (c) position this as a retirement instead of a termination.
The decision to hire a coaching staff comprised of coaches who are new to the Seahawks, new to their positions, new to each other, new to the NFL, new to the players and even new to Seattle is highest risk strategy JS could have chosen. Whatever the ceiling might be, this strategy has the absolutely lowest floor. (See: the spectacular failure of Hackett and his staff in Denver. Yes, it is true that MM was a better defensive coordinator than NH was offensive coordinator, but he is still a rookie HC who, like Hackett, has surrounded himself with coordinators who are also rookies and position coaches who are new to those positions.)
The average tenure of an NFL head coach is 3 years. The pressure on MM and staff to deliver significant performance improvements in the first season will be immense. And the pressure on JS to defend his hiring decision if MM falters will be even greater.
I don’t understand why JS would ditch Pete, put the target on his own back, and then ratchet up the pressure to such an extreme degree.
I don't see how anyone can say it was JS- He didn't have that power unless Jody gave it to him! It was time - Pete had basically five years to fix or rebuild the D and it never happened , it just continued to get worse!
Why I believe the move on from Pete was John’s strategy.
1. Timing owners rarely do delayed firings because they don’t want to be behind in the hiring game.
2. Owners that fire the coach want to have largest say in picking the next one.
3. Owners who have decided to move on from a coach don’t suggest they stay on with the team in some capacity.
4. If ownership was is unsure about John they don’t give him all the power. Eg John hired Mikes staff not Mike.
4. What I see is John and Pete come in for end of year meeting and John says we need to move on and I have a plan. Pete is shocked and fights for job but looses. Ownership which is uncomfortable with owning the decision tries to spin this as Pete is being moved upstairs to advisory position not fired.
Yes you are right what they have done is extraordinarily risky. If John and these are the ideas of Jodi and her advisers would you not make it clear that you are working with them in case everything goes wrong and you need to get a new job? Even Pete was careful to protect that Jodi was part of the draft process the last few years. None of that this year.
I think it is a little crazy but you have got to admire the balls of the moves.
I see what you are thinking.
But, if true, I absolutely don’t admire anything about these moves.
And my respect for JS will be permanently diminished.
Have you noticed that all the leaked stories put John in a favorable light. John wanted to draft Mahomes, John wanted to trade up for Allen, John found Wilson - Pete then wanted to get him in the first but John knew they could get him in the third. John brilliantly negotiated the Denver trade. Note there is never anything about the bad trades. When the stories consistently favor one person that is the person most likely leaking them. How many GMs have their own radio show? John got the radio show this last year. Do you think that was a coincidence. Most GMs are content to be in the background, but not John. The only GMs out there more than John are Jerry Jones and Howie Roseman. John has an ego and he wants the public acclaim. That was never going to happen as long as Pete was there. Pete Carol is the center of attention in any room. Mike Macdonald is John’s perfect coach. The guy is almost introverted. I agree that if you look closely it is easy not to like him. Still part of me is rooting for him because in this Game of Thrones he lives if the Seahawks win.
disagree
Yeah, I understand that you blame Pete for last year’s regression. I don’t. And neither do the professional prognosticators, based on their over/under wins progression since the reboot post-Wilson in 2022.
2022 O/U was 5.5 wins. Hawks won 9, obviously outperforming expectations significantly.
2023 O/U was 8.5 wins. Hawks won 9, essentially matching expectations, despite significant challenges with injuries, a draft class that largely failed to contribute by comparison with the previous year, and a much harder schedule.
**2024 O/U is 7.5 wins.** The professionals think the Hawks are worse off without Pete and expect the team to have a losing record. I do, too.
If the picture you paint is accurate, it’s a picture of ego-centered leadership that doesn’t lead to winning.
Insert applause GIF here for Ruthanne. And the "Bold strategy, Cotton" one for John Schneider.
There is so, SO much that we as fans are not privy to, as much as many fans feel sure that their theories are right. Mostly on Twitter and Reddit, then Field Gulls, and not nearly as much here, but it exists. WE DON'T KNOW so much about what happened. From the LOB breakup/Wickersham article, Russ saga, Paul Allen's passing and Jodi taking over, Pete's stance, where John Schneider falls on all of this, and on and on. There are still people out there on the internet who are sure that Tate had an affair with Russell Wilson's wife even today and that's about as disproven as much as one can be asked to prove a negative. We are all reading tea leaves, and too many of us are feeling like we can write history.
I've heard people say things I think are laughable such as, "Last two year's draft picks were so good because Jodi was in the room!" Yeah, that MUST be it! I'm sure she told Pete, John and the scouts, "Look, we're staying put at pick #5. This Witherspoon kid is the real deal and I want him. For any knocks there are on his straight-line speed, you've had to see how much ground he covers if he bites on a comeback route! For his size he's far and away the hardest hitting corner I've broken down tape on in 4 years!" Good lord. She's Paul Allen's sister, people. He wasn't even a football person and left those decisions up to the people he hired. She has temporarily inherited the team. Does anyone really think Pete and John would have been calling all the other 31 teams and just rabidly trying to make a useless trade or even take the whole affair less seriously if she wasn't occupying a chair beside them?
Not a huge plus move, but I would add Nick Belore to the list of released players once beloved that had passed their expiration date.
And a plus for adding two corners?
I'd suggest we have to seriously re-examine our pre-draft assumptions that the cornerback 'room' was not an area of need. Schneider has said they draft more for need in the later rounds, yes? So drafting two new ones would indicate the new regime was not impressed with the incumbents, if they 'needed' replacement candidates. There have been many criticisms that they weren't taking the best available players with those CB picks. But with that context, maybe they actually were.
For one, Woolen didn't present as a great / fast cover guy after his pre-season injury, and was pretty poor against the run when he didn't have Nwosu in front of him.
And the cigar celebration might have been seen more negatively than the team let on.
We have 3 maybe 4 corners who haven’t really competed consistently for positions . I think Michael Jackson and Coby Bryant are on prove it years and it’s most strategic to get those replacements in here now, rather than next year. Worst case scenario you have more depth/ST players
Sam Howell played for Wake Forest in a quirky run offense. He went to Notre Dame to get a Heisman. That didn't work. Howell started for Wake for multiple years. He's a great passer - long ball and short. Real leader. I live less than 15 minutes from Wake's stadium. I only saw him in person a couple of times. But saw quite a few games on TV. I think he can take over from Geno by the end of this season or next season.
Susan, you're confusing Sam Hartman for Sam Howell :)
Hartman: Wake, ND; rookie just signed UDFA
Howell: UNC; Washington Commanders; entering 3rd NFL season
Starting the Draft with Murphy was a huge boost to JS and the coaches. A great start for an entirely new group of guys. Kudos to JS for smelling the possibility and the patience to watch it unfold. A dog-gone Miracle, by golly. He's in good with the Lord. Let's hope they jinned us up another one... or two. I'm smiling, in any event.
Nick T...."Is it allowed to say that their best move was moving on from Pete Carroll? Because that's the answer."
I 100% agree. Not sure about MM yet, but we needed to move on from PC and co. for all the reasons you stated. I love PC, but it was time.
Taking Schneider's view as GM, I'd say changing coaches is the same as changing players. Pete rode herd on big changes in the game, especially with the rules of engagement as concerns injury. Watching Tre Flowers finally making a great defensive move to jar the ball loose, only to draw a flag, brought home to me how hard this transition was. He went to the Ref asking "How do I play this game?" The look on Carroll's face said the same thing. Coaching took a full body blow during those times. Irregardless, Schneider did not have the luxury of complaining. Something had to be done and it eventually was. Given time, Pete would have adjusted as he always has. I hope the HOF recognizes the contributions and innovations he brought to the Game of Football. He truly was intent on player safety and was trying to make coaching a career someone could expect to make a Home here in Seattle. If it was possible, he was the guy who could do it. But Winning requires an edginess to do more and reach new heights. Being "Football People" will remain a nomadic existence.
Is it fair to have a double answer?
Can’t argue with the Murphy pick. I think we’d all agree with that.
I also think a new coach was a good thing but time will tell if he was the right choice. I guess that goes with any selection though - including players.
I agree with you that I probably would have still been happy with Pete staying, but now he’s gone, I also feel excited about what might be.
Now….I know this is now getting away from Seahawks topics, but your last couple of posts have been quite anti-Nix. You haven’t commented previously to my queries, but I’d like to know what it is that you see that causes you to rate him so much below the other QB’s in the class. You haven’t supplied any reasons for your negativity (& this has been a common theme from most pundits throughout the draft process). The only things I’ve heard against him are that his deep ball isn’t that good (though it’s not that bad either) and that he achieved more than he would have because he was fronted by an elite OL. Well, as a ducks fan, I know that ain’t quite true. Only one player was considered a potential first round choice in the draft, and he ended up going R2. Truth is, the Ducks succeeded because they had a very good QB and were well coached.
I find it quite odd that you haven’t qualified your opinion on Nix with logic and reason as you do with every other of your thoughts and opinions.
He may well not be suited to the NFL. Time will tell. But I for one will be watching this space.
Don’t get me wrong, I love reading your posts every day and look forward to them. I appreciate all the time and effort you put in, and I won’t hold it against you if you don’t have the time to answer my curiosity.
I am one who believes if given a decent O-line in the NFL Bo Nix will be a very good QB. In fact if I was drafting I liked him better than Penix! For a multitude of reasons. We shall all see .
I am not a Duck's fan, but I thought Bo Nix was the best QB in the draft. And the stupid Sean Peyton led Broncos were the last team I wanted to see get him outside of a division rival.
The Seahawks podcasts I listen to pretty universally panned Denver's selection there also. All the talk about his great O line that in my opinion looked good because he got rid of the ball and moved in the pocket really seemed like lazy takes.
I may be totally wrong and he turns out to be a bum in the pros. It certainly wouldn't be the first time (see Wilson, Zach). QB is the hardest position for even pro scouts to get right (see Trubisky going 8 slots before Mahomes) so I certainly am not going to get overconfident from watching condensed games on YouTube with my limited knowledge. But I do think that a lot of scouts and GMs have SO much knowledge that they over-analyze quarterbacks to their own detriments sometimes.
I don't feel like Kenneth has expressed an anti-Nix opinion, so much as pointing out where he's typically been ranked amongst the QB prospects, his likely pre-draft grade from most GMs, and how rare it is for guys in his position to become solid starting QBs. Maybe I missed something, but I don't think he's been critical of Nix as a player/person, only of the process that leads to him being picked 12th overall into a situation where he'll likely be expected to start right away for a rebuilding (if not bad) team.
Fair enough. But my question then becomes why would SSJ just take the ‘typical ranking’ in this case? When has he ever done that without qualifying it?
SSJ hasn’t said anything about Nix the person (I never meant to insinuate that), but he’s never ranked him as a top 2-3 QB and suggested he was more like a r.2 draft pick. To me, this is a bit anti-Nix.
Hey, I’m sure he’s got his reasons. I’m just interested in hearing what they are.
https://cfbstats.com/2023/leader/national/player/split01/category02/sort02.html
Nix rated number two by rating, following only Daniels.
Coach Peyton swears up and down they had Nix going at #2. I can accept a guy like Peyton slathering on a lot of lipstick on a frustrating situation or he may actually be a genius and not just a benefactor of a very good QB. Obviously, it is something a young QB needs to hear and his coach wants him playing with a pissed-off edge. He wants the whole team PO'ed. You say you watched Nix and I'll side with you, as actual observation means more to me than film or stats. Something about being in the room speaks volumes when looking for the "IT" factor. It'll be something I will root for next year.
Gregg Cosell on Nix: “I could see a coach like Sean Payton believing Nix could run his offense effectively with the timing and rhythm element that is foundational, making power arm strength not a prerequisite.”
His arm is not that bad ! Can he throw a 80 yard bomb like Penix -NO- But he has allot of skills Penix doesn't have , one being he doesn't throw a bunch of low side arm deliveries ,which won't work much in the NFL- Plus he can move around much more effectively than Penix can!
I think you hit the nail on the head with this one.
My vote would be for the Sam Howell trade. He got out ahead of the QB market.
I wonder if Denver felt they had to take Nix with the Raiders lurking behind them. The QBs felt like a game of musical chairs that kept their values increasing til 6 were drafted in the top 12.
The Sam Howell move. It allowed all the rest of it to happen after Drew Lock left.
On a side note: you, Kenneth are so kicking ass with each new day. This supposedly fallow period in NFL news has proven to be a spur in your side as far as writing goes. These articles are interesting and informative. I'm renewing dude. Keep 'em coming.