The Seahawks tried to trade for Maxx Crosby; this is when and why

Will the Seahawks make a move before the trade deadline?

Every week, Seaside Joe takes questions from Super Joes in between games. If you want to get the next Super Joes Q&A newsletter, upgrade today! Or tomorrow. Tomorrow also works for me.

Gavin: What is the importance of Edge defenders in Mike Macdonald’s system? I see a lot of us worried about a lack of sacks from our edge defenders, yet our team sacks seem to be just fine (tied for second). In 2023, Macdonald’s Ravens were first in sacks, but the team sack leader was Madabuike, a tackle.

Number one I would say that players are more important than positions. If the Browns hired Mike Macdonald, I don’t think he would have demanded that they trade Myles Garrett before he agreed to coach there. He would have said “Wow, I have Myles Garrett?! I need to make my system fit him!”

Number two the Seahawks tried to trade for Maxx Crosby in February, so it doesn’t seem as though Macdonald has an aversion to acquiring better edge rushers.

Number three I hope the Seahawks don’t use the Ravens as the bar for talent at edge rushers and they attempt to do better than Jadeveon Clowney. That 2023 defense lost to the Chiefs in the playoffs with Patrick Mahomes completing 30-of-39 passes and getting sacked twice; Clowney, Kyle Van Noy, Odafe Oweh, and Nnamdi Madubuike combined for 4 QB hits, which is one every 10 dropbacks.

Number four I went to a source much smarter than me. Here’s what All-22 said when I posed your question to him:

“You have a trend with the Macdonald Defenses of increased Sack production for players who have talent and ability, but perhaps have not reached the same heights that they eventually do under the “Macdonald” scheme. In terms of the 2025 group, there has been incredible production so far collectively (50 QB Hits by Pro Football Reference, as well as 20 overall Sacks). Byron Murphy (4.5), Leonard Williams (3).

Although Boye Mafe and Derick Hall have not joined the Sack brigade yet (they have combined for 6 QB Hits), Nwosu and DeMarcus Lawrence have spent a lot of time as the pair of “Edge” Rushers on obvious passing downs. In previous seasons, experienced and balanced Pass Rushers have seen an uptick in their Sack/QB Hit/Pressure production under the Macdonald system. Justin Houston in Baltimore in 2022 (9.5 Sacks), as well as late-signed JPP (3 Sacks), followed by career resurgence for Kyle Van Noy and Jadeveon Clowney in 2023 (combined for 18.5 Sacks). Those two seasons as DC in Baltimore produced 106 total Sacks.

While Mafe (6) and Hall (8) did have an impact in Macdonald’s first year in Seattle, they have been outpaced, and at times, replaced, by Lawrence and Nwosu, whose snaps have increased dramatically in Weeks 4-5-6. I speculate that Macdonald’s system at times relies on more versatility and refinement, the type that veterans like Lawrence and Nwosu are bringing right now. In most of the plays I checked out from Sunday’s dismantling of the Jags, the foursome presented on Passing Downs was Lawrence-Williams-Murphy-Nwosu (with some exceptions, Mafe replacing an OLB/Edge, and Jarran Reed at times a DT).

To me, the Edge player rotation from 2025 will possibly ebb and flow at times IF, and only if, Mafe and Hall become more capable of presenting a balance of Pass Rush moves. At this time, and this is difficult for me to say for those of you who watch my channel because I am a huge fan of Boye Mafe, Nwosu and Lawrence have been more effective in those obvious Passing situations at either getting to, or hitting, the QB.

I think Macdonald’s system can succeed with any combination of guys on the Edge, and he will tailor the rush plan by matchup each week. So far, it seems to me that Lawrence and Nwosu are separating themselves because of versatility, experience, and an overall awareness during the play that is superior to Mafe and Hall. At least up through Week 6.” - All-22 Coach

What stands out to me is that the Ravens were able to succeed with above-average edge rushers who relied on experience and savvy in 2023, but what happened next? Clowney moved on because that’s what you do with Clowney and Oweh just got traded to the Chargers because he’s not good. Van Noy has one sack this season for the Ravens, the worst defense in the league. Two years after they led the NFL in sacks, they are now third from the bottom.

Is that because Macdonald left? The Ravens did everything in their power to retain “the system” but you’ll have to convince me that Baltimore would be this bad if they had better players. The Lions lost their defensive coordinator from the past three seasons and Aidan Hutchinson has 6 sacks. (The Ravens only have 8 sacks.) Why does Hutchinson have 6 sacks with a new defensive coordinator?

Because he’s Aidan Hutchinson.

If the 2023 Ravens are the model for what the Seahawks are supposed to do at edge rusher, then the 2025 Ravens are why you DON’T just rely on Lawrence and Nwosu to be your best outside linebackers.

It’s awesome that Seattle is getting production up the middle from Byron Murphy and Leonard Williams…

That doesn’t make it less important to evaluate other positions. I would never question Brady Henderson’s reporting so if he says that the Seahawks wanted Crosby, then the Seahawks wanted Crosby. That means that Seattle was willing to make one hell of an investment at edge rusher and nothing I’ve seen from Mafe or Hall suggests to me that Macdonald would have changed his opinion on the need there.

Danno: Anyone who knows me, knows I’m super positive about the Seahawks. I was convinced KK felt Darnold was a better fit to run his system than Geno. I felt our receiver room would not be taking a step back losing Lockett and DK. I felt our TE room would be better even if we lost Fant. I was mostly high on the current TEs because I felt Arroyo would be an excellent receiving TE. I thought Barner would be a better blocker this year and he would continue to improve as a receiver.

Now I think I was actually less positive about Barner than he actually is. He’s still very young and is taking a big step up this year so far. I’m wondering if we are witnessing the next George Kittle in the making. I’ve upped my expectations of him to 10+ TDs this year. Now that would be too high a prediction even for me, but it’s rare for a Seahawk to live up to my overly positive expectation, and Barner is one of those rare out performers. Plus, Kubiak’s use of TEs is a big plus for the opportunity to reach your maximum potential. He could wind up being better than Loveland, the Michigan TE who went in the 1st round this year.

I know you and that’s true. You’re super positive about the Seahawks.

George Kittle is a little much and I don’t say that to criticize Barner or downplay the possibility that his ceiling is much higher than we thought before. It’s just that Kittle is inching up to Hall of Fame territory and I’d be fine with it if Barner is simply “really, really good”.

So far this season, Barner ranks 17th among tight ends in yards (205) and he’s done that on 104 routes, which is the 25th-most among tight ends. One hand, Barner catches everything, he’s scored 4 times, and he’s very valuable when he gets the ball. On the other, we’re just left to wonder if and when Barner will see a 50% increase in routes.

That’s where you’ll find Trey McBride, Travis Kelce, Tyler Warren, etc. I have to remind myself that there are guys out there like Warren and Jake Ferguson and Brenton Strange and they’re also making a name for themselves at tight end. Just consider this: Kittle’s replacement (Kittle is on IR) is Jake Tonges.

Tonges has run 170 routes and he’s caught 25 passes for 224 yards and 3 touchdowns (one that Seahawks will remember). In a vacuum, Barner’s breakout season seems like it must be the best tight end improvement in the NFL. But with the perspective of 31 other teams, a journeyman like Tonges has even better numbers. And don’t forget an already-productive rookie class with Warren, Harold Fannin, Theo Johnson, Mason Taylor. Loveland has been injured so I wouldn’t count him out either.

(How good are all these guys as blockers? I don’t know if any of us can adequately compare all the tight ends as blockers.)

It’s great watching Barner have a big play almost every week. If he’s the next Dallas Goedert, I’m perfectly happy with that.

Chuck Turtleman: What do you think odds are that we trade Woolen in light of the injury situation at DB? Any chance we pick up an edge rusher before the deadline? Among teams listed as fits at PFF and various sites online, I never see us connected to this position though it seems like a need to me.

I’m reminded of a situation with the Rams a couple of years ago when running back Cam Akers was essentially benched, left the team after Week 5, and L.A. was like “yep, you’re gonna be traded”. Except that they couldn’t work out a trade and Akers returned to the Rams in Week 9 and played out the rest of the season. Happy ending?

Not really. The Rams traded Akers to the Vikings after one game the next season.

Ian Rapoport didn’t put out Woolen trade rumors for clicks. He’s not Tony Pauline. If the Seahawks can find a suitor, they’ll trade him. If not, they can play out the season and get a comp pick from free agency.

As far as picking up an edge rusher, I’d say it’s a pretty easy “no” on most of the names being put out there like Bradley Chubb and Arden Key. Jermaine Johnson and Kayvon Thibodeaux seem very overrated. That’s why I say that if it’s not Trey Hendrickson or Maxx Crosby, it’s a lateral move and not worth it.

I’ll be back on Saturday answering more Super Joes questions. Subscribe! Regular Joes get access to comments and bonus content like Thursday’s newsletter about the team’s immense success.

Seaside Joe 2419