When will we know if the Seahawks are good?
We are not the same people who we appear to be at camp
Another question and comment from a Super Joes subscriber:
zezinhom400: Not that it matters till Week One, but, the media (and we) will be agonizing about every little thing (as usual). How do you dig through the hype to truly assess where things are? For example, we may run the risk of over-valuing our defense bc it's up against a Year One playbook, OC and QB. The defense SHOULD look better than the offense. Does that mean they're truly good?
And conversely, if the offense (and Darnold in particular) have missteps along the way, is it really as bad as it may appear under the circumstances? I saw in a recent NFL.com ranking that they expect Seattle's defense to be #7 in the league. Shouldn't we be expecting the defense to have the upper hand for most of training camp?
And if the defense doesn't have pretty clear superiority, is that hope for our offense or a sad realization our defense isn't as high as we all hope?
Your question/comment is a great reminder for all of us to keep our emotions and opinions in check during training camp and the preseason. Fans go through this experience every year and yet we struggle to learn from those repetitive motions.
For example, here’s an article from last August detailing the final day of 2024 Seahawks training camp highlights:
“You asked for it, and it would appear that #morebobo is indeed on the menu. Jake Bobo’s value really cannot be overstated, and offensive coordinator Ryan Grubb knows it. Bobo was heavily involved with both the first and second team offenses and certainly had his fair share of targets.”
Bobo saw his total targets decrease from 25 to 17 and his total yards nearly get chopped in half, from 199 to 107. There was undeniably #lessbobo.
“The one player that surprised me a bit was Pharaoh Brown, as he seemed to be making a lot of plays…in multiple tight end packages, or in rotation, Brown looks like a reliable target in short yardage situations.”
Brown turned out to be a serious nominee for “least valuable player on the Seahawks” in 2024.
This isn’t to say that anything in the article written by the author was wrong or unfair. He shared what he observed in a practice environment and not just based on the plays being made, but by how often the players were utilized on the first team offense or defense. Most people expected Jake Bobo’s role to increase based on what we saw before the season, which is why there is that delineation between Week 1 and everything that happens before it.
In another training camp takeaways post from August 3rd, it was noted that the defense had thus far outplayed the offense, as many expected would happen going into camp.
The defensive line clearly won the 11-on-11. In fact, the defense undeniably won the day.
Sure enough during the regular season Seattle ranked 5th in points allowed per drive and 21st in points scored per drive. However, that doesn’t mean that a practice couldn’t have the same results if it was a top-5 defense against a top-5 offense or a bottom-3 offense against a bottom-3 defense. We just won’t know until a lot of real, regular season snaps are played.
This is another reason that joint practices have been so important (and probably more foreshadowing than preseason games) and Seattle will have a round of them against the Green Bay Packers next month. We’ll get to see who the coaches really believe they can trust the most and how they perform against equally good opponents with pads on.
That’s actually not going to happen very often in preseason games because Mike Macdonald will protect starters and play backups for most of those snaps. Which is also why we tend to overrate depth and practice squad players based on what will happen in the preseason…
If I had to guess which Seahawks will be fan favorites a month from now, I’d throw out names such as:
WR Ricky White
WR Montorie Foster
RB Damien Martinez
EDGE Jared Ivey
CB Zy Alexander (if he’s back from PUP)
QB Jalen Milroe (obviously)
Milroe won’t be a practice squad player — he’ll be on the regular season depth chart and get regular season snaps — but will he be as good as he “seems to look” in a practice environment or a preseason game? Doubtful.
I’m hopeful that any of these players will be the next Richard Sherman or Doug Baldwin. But just by playing the odds, history says that 9/10 seventh round picks or undrafted free agents will be depth, if they even make the roster in any capacity.
Some standouts in 2024 training camp include D.J. James (didn’t make it), Marquise Blair (yes, remember when Marquise Blair returned?), Cody White, K’Von Wallace, and Jack Westover, while Nick Harris was embroiled in a competition to be the starting center that neither he nor Olu Oluwatimi ended up winning.
Training Camp is like Summer Camp
It’s a place for young people to “figure themselves out”. They’re counseled, they play games, they get in fights, and if you’re a Seahawk then you also do it against the backdrop of a beautiful lake. It’s not Camp Crystal Lake, but nevertheless some of the kids will get cut.
And although everything that happens at camp is real, it is also a dream. You go to camp to create formative memories because you’re always cognizant of the fact that this is not life. It’s not where you’ll live, where you’ll go to school, where you’ll work, nor are these even people you will see for the rest of the year.
Camp is a moment in time that you try to live forever.
When the Seahawks break camp, that’s it. That’s the end of camp and the start of something new: A version of the Seahawks that actually won’t exist until they play the 49ers on September 7th. Until then, all we can have is a flawed vision of what we expect them to be based on camp…
And nobody is the same as who they are at camp.
Seaside Joe 2329
The only camp I had ever been to was 2013. Fun times! I'm going again this year with my grandsons and this is what I told them what camp is like, "It's an opportunity to see new guys on the team and how they fit in with the old guys on the team. It's also to see if new ideas on offense and defense will work out." Kind of vague but that's what you get. Joe's right , we won't see many vets in preseaon and the newby's that you do see won't be up against starting talent. So those results might be deceiving. Any more it seems like the first two games of the season are like an extension of the preseason that counts. Most vets don't get any meaingful reps until week one. I was listening to something Dave Wyman said the other day which I agree with. He thinks the defense is going to pick up where they left off last year for a couple of reasons:
1. They are returning many of the same starters and depth players who already have chemistry.
2. This is the second year of McDonalds defense which they are much more versed in than last year. Familiarity counts for a lot. (I predict Seattle will add another nose tackle before week one /possible vet LB)
Offensively you just don't know with all the intangibles. The receiving group, the o-line, the QB, the new scheme?????
Here's what I think will definately be different than last year under Grubb. Seattle will have a running game that isn't in the league cellar. Even ranked in the middle is better than the 24 season. (28th in the NFL for both rushing yards and attempts)
The skill players and the lineman are much better matched to Kubiak's scheme. On a previous post I listed how many of the young guys came out of wide zone type schemes which again under Grubb, wasn't happening. Kubiak actually knows how to scheme for TE's and Seattle has a talented bunch.
I think Sam I am is going to be a lot better than people think as he has worked with Kubiak previously with the 49er's, and has a lot of familiarity with the Shanahan type of scheme. I think this type of scheme fits his skill set as well. The running game and screen game are going to be real assets to helping out the line and Sam under Kubiak.
I believe Seattle will be more focused and make fewer self defeating penalties this year under this system and coaching staff.
The special teams might be just that if indeed Seattle sees the resurrection of a return game.
Seattle struggled defensivly the first half of the season and offensivly most of it. Some of that was not using players strengths properly and lacking key personal to make things work. To much of a square peg in a round hole especially offensively. I think Seattle started addressing those problems halfway through last season. This offseason a bunch. Seattle still won 10 games with all of these factors and it was McDonalds first year at the helm. Personally, due to the strength of schedule and the fact that Seattle offense will not be so predictable, I can see Seattle winning 10 or 11 games this year. Injuries always have a major impact of course, but if they can still keep a majority of starters and see some contributions from their depth players, Seattle can accomplish this. Finally, I just get a different vibe this year. Although many of NFL pundits don't see Seattle as improving this offseason, I disagree. My take is there have been some gutsy changes and decisions from the leadership that acutally moved this team forward now and in the future. I think that if the OTA's showed us anything so far this year, it's that this team has a buy in from vet to rookie. That's a great place to start and build from for 2025.
"It’s not Camp Crystal Lake, but nevertheless some of the kids will get cut."
Absolute gold, here. Just in case you are unaware of the reference, Camp Crystal Lake was in Friday the 13th.
Chef's kiss to you, sir.