Kenneth Walker clickbaited me

Seahawks training camp predictions, Elijah Arroyo and Jalen Sundell hype, plus the value of patience and salt grains

What should Seahawks fans expect out of training camp in the coming weeks and what are your predictions for Seattle’s depth chart, final roster, and upcoming moves?

I reached out to the Seaside Joe community for those answers on Wednesday evening and these are their responses:

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Danno’s 5 predictions

I’ll rapid fire my reactions to these:

Prediction 1 … If Kenneth Walker can stay healthy, we may not see him in the preseason games, but he will rock in a big way this season and help propel the Seahawks to the NFC west title and a strong playoff performance.

We will not see Walker or Zach Charbonnet in the preseason, we can pretty much guarantee that no matter what happens. I found it funny that Walker clickbaited me with this title “(I almost quit football)” recently:

He says he almost quit football…in high school.

Prediction 2 … Horton looks healthy and I predict he will look so good MVS does not make the final 53.

I could be totally wrong, but I do not sense that Seattle drafted Tory Horton with the intention to cut Marquez Valdes-Scantling if Horton looks good in camp. I think Kubiak’s intention was always to have MVS this season and if he doesn’t make the roster it’s only because he doesn’t look good.

The MVS contract has $3 million guaranteed, so they’re just throwing away cap space to keep someone like Cody White or Steven Sims at that point. I can’t see it unless MVS looks really bad and maybe not even then because players can have a rough August and a great September.

Prediction 3 … Klint Kubiak is going to be fine, mighty fine: 2400+ rushing yards this year and a very effective ball control offense that will complement a top notch defense.

2,400 rushing yards would have ranked eighth in 2024, and the Seahawks ranked 28th (1,627). So yeah, I could see a dramatic improvement too and I hope you’re right.

Seattle’s last top-10 rushing season came in 2019:

• 4th in rushing yards

• But “only” 2,200 yards

• 16 games, not 17 games

Here’s a question for everybody reading this: “Who will have more rushing yards in 2025: The Seahawks or Pete Carroll’s Raiders with Ashton Jeanty?”

(The Raiders ranked 32nd in rushing yards last year.)

Prediction 4 … Milroe will look like 6 million dollars in preseason games. Lock will look like a million, and Darnold will have the system down and ready to give the 49ers a beating in week 1

I doubt that Drew Lock will play more than a few series in the preseason. Seattle needs him to be the backup if anything happens to Sam Darnold because I don’t think there’s any planned scenario for the coaches that involves turning the offense over to Jalen Milroe this year barring a 2-QB disaster.

The Seahawks may yet add a fourth quarterback to handle some preseason snaps and this is totally speculative but free agent Nathan Peterman has prior experience with Kubiak.

Prediction 5 …. In his press conference today MM gave the impression he expects to contend for a championship this year. I know that could be labeled as coach speak, but J Reed made similar comments in his interview, as did Ernest Jones. If the coaches and team BELIEVE they’re Super Bowl contenders, I’m getting on that bus. Don’t be left behind!

I certainly hope they all feel that way. And Pete Carroll preached that belief for years, even as Seattle was struggling to make it past round one of the playoffs. But to quote A Few Good Men:

“It doesn’t matter what I believe. It only matter what I can prove!”

Chris H expectations/predictions

I’ll do another rapid fire…and I’ll briefly add that Chris also made this point about MVS that falls in line with my earlier comment:

Back to Horton, he may not be competing with MVS at all for a roster spot. If they see him as more of a flanker (rather than an x receiver) then he may get used quite differently. We'll see in preseason.

Kubiak’s usage of players in traditional WR roles will be one of the most interesting (and underrated) stories of camp to follow.

I've read that many folks are expecting the defense to look well ahead of the offense, at least early in camp. I think the offense will look very competitive as soon as the pads come on. The only thing holding them back early on will be the juggling on the o-line. Once that gets sorted out (and it seems like MacDonald is keen on having that sorted out sooner than later) I think they will more than hold their own against the defense......which will be good for the defense.

I just wanted to note somewhere that this idea coming from Mike Macdonald that they’re going to settle the C and RG jobs “soon” still doesn’t really track for me. Okay fine, you intend to sort those jobs out in the next week or two. That’s a great intention…

But what if the players you choose start to disappoint you after you make your choice? Aren’t you going to re-open the competition? If you choose Anthony Bradford on Monday and he’s terrible on Friday, are you going to stick with Bradford for another three weeks out of stubbornness?

We would all like the Seahawks to choose a starting five as soon as possible, but in my opinion the competition is not going to be truly settled until Seattle is well into the 2025 season and none of the starters have mucked up their opportunities. That’s always what happens when you go into camp with a competition, just ask Nick Harris, Olu Oluwatimi, and Connor Williams!

Jalen Sundell wins a spot, either at center or RG. He's a little light to be a bully, but I don't think this is a bully offense. It's a run and get to your spot, setup your angle, and get to your guy. I think this plays into what he does best.

There was a lot of Sundell hype after the first day of practice. And that’s all well and fine because as you say, Sundell might profile as the better man for the job than his competition due to his athletic fit for Kubiak and Sundell could be the under-the-radar player who breaks out in 2025 and I like the case you are making for him, Chris H.

I’ll just go back to wrote earlier in the week, noting some of the early training camp stories of 2024 and how they did not foretell who was going to actually win jobs. This isn’t really a reaction to you (or Danno’s) pro-Sundell predictions, so I don’t want it to sound like I’m shutting down this idea because I’m not. This is just a general comment about the type of hype that comes out of the first couple weeks of training camp.

To this point in his career, it would still be very remarkable if Jalen Sundell became a starting NFL guard or center. My mind tends to go back to players like Garry Gilliam and Jordan Roos and the persistence it requires to first make a team as an undrafted free agent, then win a job, then keep a job. The third thing is the hardest of all: Keeping.

Right now I would still guess that Sundell is trailing those competitions, but luckily for him the players in front of him have yet to run away.

What are some other reader predictions for guard and center?

I'll predict that Arroyo is a revelation right from the jump. You'll see a lot of him in preseason. He's a 250 lb problem, with speed and hands and YAC ability. Expect to read a lot about him as the practices ramp up.

On the practice front, yes. I like where your head’s at. On the preseason front, I disagree we’ll see much of Arroyo or other key Seahawks. It may take some getting used to, but Macdonald is tracking to be a Sean McVay-like preseason coach who will protect both his starters and backups away from preseason games and increase the number of joint practices instead.

I think when the team released Noah Fant, it all but guaranteed that Arroyo’s preseason snaps will be reduced to a few series. Undrafted free agents Marshall Lang and Nick Kallerup seem more likely to soak up the majority of preseason snaps.

ILB is still a question for me after Jones and Knight. I could see a move there at some point, depending on how they feel about Drake Thomas and Josh Ross. Speaking of iLB's, I'm looking forward to seeing D'Eryk Jackson in the preseason. He has good speed and can run and hit. He might be one of the UDFA's that pop early.

The competition at linebacker is going under the radar but you’re right in that none of us know how comfortable to feel with the other four players on the roster. At this time a year ago, Seattle went into the season with two starting linebackers who wouldn’t make it to the second half of the year.

Now we know that won’t happen, at least not due to performance.

In addition to Jackson, I would point to linebacker as a spot that the Seahawks might seek on the waiver wire after final cuts.

Isaac B on the importance of being cautious with reports

I was listening to Wyman & Bob today heaping praise on Lock and talking about how Darnold seems to be hesitant in getting the ball out at the first practice today. Something I think that is important to consider is who these guys are facing. If Darnold is primarily facing the 1s and Lock is primarily facing the 2s, as one would expect, then you simply can't make this kind of comparison. The Seahawks starting defense is really really good, and the level of competition change from the 1s to the 2s is significant. Same for Milroe. He could look brilliant out there, but if the guys he is playing against are going to be hunting for practice squad slots around the league, or sitting on the couch otherwise, it doesn't really matter how good he looks unless he looks that way against the 1s. Perspective is important.

Perspective is important. Context is everything! Totally agree.

As far as Seattle sports radio talking about a single day of practice, I think it’s important to remember how hungry people are for “real football news” and analysis after 6.5 months of no football. We saw what happened when Mike Salk got to observe one OTA with Sam Darnold.

Darnold “didn’t look that good” with the Vikings to start camp last year. He had a great season. Maybe he doesn’t have a great season, maybe this contract is a disaster, but we certainly won’t find out the answer to that question this week.

Chuck: I must be a homer because I feel good about the Seahawks and where they are going however a lot of sports columnists have Seattle sucking. I hope they are wrong.

I’m starting to think that people are just “whatever” about the Seahawks because they weren’t worse last year. I’ve found that there’s a tendency to bet on an underdog more than a team that was actually good but not that good. So if the Seahawks went 3-14 in 2023 and then 10-7 in 2024, the media would say they’re sleepers to win the Super Bowl.

But because the Seahawks are usually 9-8 or 10-7, the media is maybe lulled into a belief that that’s all they’ll ever be. Whereas they love betting on the Cardinals, not because the Cardinals are usually good but ironically because Arizona is usually bad.

That’s not logical. I think the Seahawks are better than the Cardinals and in the hunt to win the NFC West. Whether that’s true or not likely comes down to how good Klint Kubiak fits Seattle’s personnel, how good Darnold fits Kubiak, and how good the offensive line changes turn out to be.

Michael Langlais: i'm hoping the new coaches prove to be significant upgrades from what we're used to. it would be great to see a healthy and productive o-line.

100%.

Grant Alden: My guess is that we'll see at least one player added before the season begins. They have the cap space, and MM has shown a willingness to change what does not work as quickly as possible. Not in any order, but I wouldn't be surprised to see us add an inside LB, or a NT, or an X receiver. That last one I know people are worried about, I'm not entirely convinced Kubiak's offense needs one, or that he can't finesse his way around it.

Let's remember that it took half a season to get the D clicking last year, and let's extend that courtesy to Kubiak as well.

I agree that the roster will continue to change in the coming weeks, but Seattle doesn’t give the appearance of feeling anxious about any positions. Because if there had been an “urgency” anywhere, maybe Seattle would have held onto Noah Fant longer and attempted to trade him for said problem position. As in, there could be a receiver out there making $6 million who isn’t going to make his team’s roster and the two sides swap bad contracts.

The free agents available are all pretty bad, hence signing Justin Rogers this week. But after final cuts will there be a significant addition like you mention, Grant? Yeah, I completely agree that could happen.

MJDarby15: I'm excited to see how the TE position shakes out, and I would love for us to find a quality kick/punt returner somehow

Hopefully that returner is already on the roster and isn’t Steven Sims.

zezinhom400

Prediction: We’re going to be anxious about our offense the entire pre-season. New everything, and up against a better defense than they’re going to face most of the schedule. QB and OL will be double-anxious.

Hopefully not as anxious at Seaside Joe if this community is committed to taking its daily dose of 1 huge grain of salt.

Grant: I think Arroyo is the #2 target in this offense. It might not happen right away, but that's the plan right now…Arroyo is the guy we should be betting on to demand targets in this offense, because that's who the front office bet on. They doubled down on that bet by letting Fant go.

Yeah, and please don't get me wrong, I don't think Kupp is washed up. I think he'll be the #2 guy this season, and especially valuable early on as the offense gels. But if the Arroyo bet hits, this offense transforms in a way that no other player can duplicate.

For whatever reason, the Seahawks offense sucked when Jimmy Graham became the team’s #2 option. Even in 2015, the offense didn’t skyrocket until Graham’s injury, at which point it became the best in the league. It still boggles the mind that Carroll was so intent on finding a receiving tight end given that Seattle consistently struggled with those players.

All that being said…

• Sam LaPorta

• Dallas Goedert

• Travis Kelce

• George Kittle

• Mark Andrews

This is not a list of good tight ends. This is a list of great receiving tight ends on great teams. It works. It’s proven to work. The Seahawks have never made it work before: Graham’s 923 yards in 2016 is Seattle’s franchise record for a tight end and it is the only season by a tight end with over 630 yards.

Because of John Williams, there are more 630+ receiving yard seasons by a Seahawks fullback than by a tight end!

That doesn’t mean you stop trying and you’re right: Elijah Arroyo is Schneider’s attempt to strike it rich with a receiving tight end. In the past, these players tend to take 1-2 years to adjust to the NFL. But Brock Bowers and LaPorta have proven recently that coaches don’t always have to wait.

Right now, I’m open to anything for Arroyo in 2025.

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